Day off question? Some help

A

akeefer

New Member
Hey there,

Well, I'm one of those accepted for the AT-SAT in June, and had some questions for anyone in the know. I read the sticky about days off, but I'm not at all sure.

I keep a 7th day sabbath, due to religion, and cannot work sunset to sunset friday night to saturday night.

Am I crazy for even attempting this? I want badly to work in the aviation industry, I'm a PVT pilot, once considered flight instruction, but don't want to go into $80k debt for it.

Is there any place to go to (say a larger area, or a center) to be able to get any schedule just without the saturday day time so I can go to church, or is this just not ever going to work out?

I know it's the government, and I'm somewhat of a minority due to this, but I really have no idea on it. I'd really appreciate any answers from people that actually know. I'm willing to work any other shift, be it all midnight shifts for years if that's what it takes to do this job. I'm very excited, but also very nervous.

Thanks for any help or guidance!
Aaron
 
I think once you get to the center or tower you might be able to trade or work out a switch with someone...but there is no guarantee. It IS shift work that goes 24/7, 365 days a year. You would have to bid just like anybody else. I am pretty darn sure that there is not anyway for you to guarantee you will get EVERY Saturday off for your career, 25 + years.

We believe that Sunday is the Sabbath and have come to realize that my husband MAY have to work on a Sunday. This is a public safety job that they need people on every day, just like a doctor or police officer. It is life with this job and something we will have to deal with.

If you absolutely cannot ever work a Friday night to Saturday night, this might not be the best line of work to pick.
 
akeefer said:
Hey there,

Well, I'm one of those accepted for the AT-SAT in June, and had some questions for anyone in the know. I read the sticky about days off, but I'm not at all sure.

I keep a 7th day sabbath, due to religion, and cannot work sunset to sunset friday night to saturday night.

Am I crazy for even attempting this? I want badly to work in the aviation industry, I'm a PVT pilot, once considered flight instruction, but don't want to go into $80k debt for it.

Is there any place to go to (say a larger area, or a center) to be able to get any schedule just without the saturday day time so I can go to church, or is this just not ever going to work out?

I know it's the government, and I'm somewhat of a minority due to this, but I really have no idea on it. I'd really appreciate any answers from people that actually know. I'm willing to work any other shift, be it all midnight shifts for years if that's what it takes to do this job. I'm very excited, but also very nervous.

Thanks for any help or guidance!
Aaron
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As for myself, I'm a spiritual person and knew by going into this career field that I would have to work some (if not all for a few years) Sunday's and miss church which means a great deal to me, but that's the nature of the beast. From what I've been told by my Assistant ATM (Air Traffic Manager) that we (at my center) will work Mon-Fri for the first couple of months when we get to the facility, then after that we will work whatever shifts your trainer works which most likely include the weekends b/c the ppl w/ the most seniority want nights and weekends b/c of the increase in pay, but many ppl with families don't so you would have to wait until you go to your facility, so you may get lucky, but don't hold your breath. As for working all mid's and things of that nature, forget about it b/c most of the more experienced ppl want those and btw who wouldn't, all the big bosses are gone and night differential!! Every facility runs things a little differently than the others, but good luck in your decision. I'm sure other ppl will chime in wih their say so, but that was mine.
 
I was an airline pilot for five years before getting into ATC. Seniority rules in both places, so do yourself a favor and just forget about specific days off. Anything less than that and you´re just being naive about the realities of aviation as a profession.

I worked weekends for the first three years at my airline job, and spent just about every holiday, sacred and secular, holed up in an awful hotel. As long as passengers want to fly 24 hours a day, there has to be pilots AND controllers available 24 hours a day to work for them.

I don´t want to sound blunt, but I wouldn´t even consider this career if having a certain day of the week off is on your list of requirements.
 
I've actually wondered about how certain faith groups would deal with that, having been a Mormon myself, which is a religion that avoids work on Sundays.

Like everyone else is saying, I don't think your chances are good. When you're all checked out and at the bottom of the seniority ladder, you're almost certainly going to have to work on Sundays. When I was LDS, the "Sabbath requirement" was bent a little bit for service jobs that absolutely had to be 24/7... that is, you were still considered worthy (for all intents and purposes) even if you had to work as a peace officer, in a hospital, or, presumably, in air traffic control. The same exemption didn't apply to, say, working at an office job, restaurant, or other non-essential role.

As far as my own faith goes, I believe that God's Sabbath instruction, as fulfilled and explained in the New Testament, is not a command to take Sunday off, per se, but to find a time of rest and reflection during the week that is set aside. You may have Tuesday-Wednesday off, but if you're taking time in there to treat as a Sabbath, then you're grasping the real meaning of it.


...okay, I'm going off on a theological sidetrack. Hey, can you guess what my career field used to be before ATC?
 
hmm, well, former mormon and was LDS makes me think...idk, Associate Professor of Religious Studies? Maybe the Dean?? :confused:

but to answer the question, and to beat a dead horse, I don't think you have any chance of getting Fri night-Sat night off every week. Even if they could, that is just begging for complaints from other ATCers who are denied set schedules/weekend requests, religious reasons or not. My husband & I go to church every week and we know that he won't be able to go with the family hardly ever. There are other times that he could go with us, like Wednesday nights, or some special events, but, like it was said, if it's absolutely something you can't do...this isn't the profession. Sorry. :(
 
teetee said:
I don't know if you know this or not so I thought I would put it out there. LDS and Mormon are the same religion...The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
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I know a good friend of mine is LDS. I was focusing more on the past tense of the religious affiliation. I was going to make a reference to him being a religion professor at a university in Utah, but couldn't remember the name of a University in Utah...

but thanks.
 
I asked my husband about differential pay.

Differential pay starts at 6 pm and goes to 6 am. 10% pay increase during differential pay. For almost every center and for towers that have night shifts you will work 2 days, 2 evening/swing, 1 mid-shift (night). So once you go to shift work 3 days a week you will make at least 10% more for at least part of the shift (you may work midnight - 8:00 so pay would only be 10% more from midnight til 6:00 am).

For Sunday pay he can't remember exactly but knows it is more than differential pay. He thinks it is an increase of 15%, but it could be 25%. If you get a night or differential on Sunday you get a pay increase of 25-35%.

There is a controller that was talking to my husband this last week. A couple years ago Christmas was on Sunday. He works the night shift (from midnight until 8) on Sunday mornings (that is a shift you have to be high in seniority to get...everyone wants it). That Christmas morning he got holiday pay, normal pay plus the additional differential and Sunday pay. He figured that he made over $150/hour that day!
 
It is 25% on Sunday but you only get one type of shift differential at a time so....If you get the 25% for Sunday that is all you get all day just because you work the evening/night shift you don't get the 10% too.
 
teetee said:
I don't know if you know this or not so I thought I would put it out there. LDS and Mormon are the same religion...The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. You have to be a mormon to be LDS but you don't have to be LDS to be a mormon.

Saying that is like saying being a christian is the same thing as being baptist. Yes all baptists are christians but not all christians are baptist. The same goes for mormons.
 
Night differential pay is 10% from 6 pm to 6 am. Sunday premium pay is 25%. If you work a Sunday night 3-11 pm, you get paid 8 hours of Sunday premium pay, plus 10 % night differential for the hours worked from 6-11 pm. You can earn a premium and a differential pay, you can’t get paid two premium pays… If you work overtime on a Sunday, you are paid time and a half, the overtime premium, not time and a half (OT premium) plus time and a quarter (Sunday premium)

Back to the original question, I don’t think you can realistically expect to have Friday-Saturday regular days off, that schedule tends to go very senior, and seniority is everything. At most facilities, controllers work to help each other out, swapping shifts for the kid’s ball games, school performances, and religious holidays. I wouldn’t expect management to make “reasonable accommodations” to your work schedule for your religious beliefs. Any Sikhs out there want to comment about wearing a turban in your facility under the imposed work rules?
 
I had read enough about not getting holidays off, what is the case if it falls on your regular day off?
 
atcbrownie said:
Not exactly. You have to be a mormon to be LDS but you don't have to be LDS to be a mormon.

Saying that is like saying being a christian is the same thing as being baptist. Yes all baptists are christians but not all christians are baptist. The same goes for mormons.
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Ummm...explain your reasoning more please. I am aware that not all Christians are baptist but all baptists are Christian. However this analogy doesn't work with this. They really are the same people!

A mormon is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Someone that is LDS is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The different words just come from different nicknames given or associated with the church.

The descriptive word "Mormons" comes from the Book of Mormon and the nickname started back in the 1800's, particularly said by those that persecuted the early members of the church.

LDS stands for Latter-Day Saints, it is a nickname that also started back in the 1800's it is what the church members referred to themselves as.

That is like saying I can't be called Mom, mommy, mother and Tauns because I am Tauni.


To everyone else, thanks for the clarification. My husband was thinking that it was 25% but it was due to the differential and Sunday pay being added together (Sunday being 15% and differential being 10%). Then he got confused and wondered if it was 35%, that is why I stated both.
 
Well, I can handle the baptist/christian analogy... being that I am both Baptist & Christian. :)

To be a Christian does not mean you have to be a Baptist, or Methodist or Presbyterian. You can be a Christian with out any affiliation, ergo, non-denominational churches. However, if you wanted to become a member of a Baptist, Methodist, or Presbyterian church, you would first need to be a Christian. The religion is Christianity, the affiliation is Baptist.

I don't know about Mormons/LDS, I was always told they were one in the same. I don't know if they have separate affiliations. I know the bigamists call themselves Mormons, but the official Mormon church doesn't recognize them as Mormons.
 
Zoesmom1020 said:
Well, I can handle the baptist/christian analogy... being that I am both Baptist & Christian. :)

To be a Christian does not mean you have to be a Baptist, or Methodist or Presbyterian. You can be a Christian with out any affiliation, ergo, non-denominational churches. However, if you wanted to become a member of a Baptist, Methodist, or Presbyterian church, you would first need to be a Christian. The religion is Christianity, the affiliation is Baptist.

I don't know about Mormons/LDS, I was always told they were one in the same. I don't know if they have separate affiliations. I know the bigamists call themselves Mormons, but the official Mormon church doesn't recognize them as Mormons.
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I am a mormon, LDS, Latter-Day, member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. To be a member of the LDS faith, or to be a Mormon, is the same thing.

There are many out there that claim to be mormon but don't live the teachings of the church...just like there are many that claim to be Catholic but have never stepped foot in the church nor do they live the teachings, i.e. they use birth control or something like that.

And yes there are many polygamists that claim to be FLDS (Fundementalist Latter-Day Saints) but not all polygamist claim to be that religion. The church officially does not practice or encourage the practice of polygamy currently, that is in the past.


Back to the subject on hand:

Today at work my husband was informed that he can get the 25% and the 10%. I am sooo confused cause everyone on here says it ain't so. Was he just mis-informed or is that something that could change facility to facility?
 
teetee said:
Today at work my husband was informed that he can get the 25% and the 10%. I am sooo confused cause everyone on here says it ain't so. Was he just mis-informed or is that something that could change facility to facility?
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El Kabong said:
Night differential pay is 10% from 6 pm to 6 am. Sunday premium pay is 25%. If you work a Sunday night 3-11 pm, you get paid 8 hours of Sunday premium pay, plus 10 % night differential for the hours worked from 6-11 pm. You can earn a premium and a differential pay, you can’t get paid two premium pays… If you work overtime on a Sunday, you are paid time and a half, the overtime premium, not time and a half (OT premium) plus time and a quarter (Sunday premium)
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A few posts ago someone mentioned that you can definately collect both. The reason is because Sundays are considered PREMIUM pay and nights shifts receive a DIFFERENTIAL pay. You can collect premium and differential in combination, but not two types of premium or differential pays.
 
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