current students, how is Pan Am AZ doing now?


Well-Known Member
Well, it's been over a half year since 9-11 and I am wondering how things have changed at
Pan Am in AZ. I am interested in hearing from people that are at Pan Am AZ at the moment...
Not really from people that are mad at the school and do nothing but complain about it with
destructive attitude. I know alot of people got screwed recently but I think that was at every
school. What I'm wondering is how things are going now in April and how they are expected
to look in the near future.

Anyways, I know that alot of things have been changing down there. I hear that they are
giving students the opportunity to do early training in a ME aircraft? Is this true and how many
hours of ME do you get early on during PPL and Instument training? I think this is great!!

What is your schedule like on an average day down there? I know people have complained
about sim training at 2am? Is the schedule fair?

Also what bridge programs (if any) do theys have going now?

Is anyone hiring from from Pan Am yet?

Also is the ACE program still going and has anyone graduated from it yet?

Are students coming in with a PPL looked down on or at a disadvantage?

Thanks alot, Tim
I am (dispite all the negitives about it on the board) looking forward to starting.

I would however, like to know the same as posted above,.. if anyone on the "inside" has any info do please ... let us know.

danke Sehr
Hey perpetual,

when do you plan on starting at Pan AM? I am in the process of just trying to follow these schools as closely as possible to see how they are progressing after 9-11.

I am graduating with a BS in May and then will work for about 6 months before starting my private at a local FBO. After my PPL I am planning on doing the rest of the ratings at perhaps Pan Am AZ if they still look like a good option.

The whole Key is when the airlines are hiring though...

still looking for info from Pan AM AZ

Well, unfortunately for me jobs in my field are hard to find at the moment. Besides, I dont think I am the kind of person that can sit behind a computer all day doing GIS work. It was sorta fun at first but now I dont want anything to do with it. Most of the stuff in my field that is open requires a Masters which I also don't want to do. I would love to do some meteorology work but everything requires modeling experience that I have seen so far... other than that they are all unpaid internships.

Right now, I am thinking about doing some screener/security work at Denver International or perhaps security work at one of the local airports. Also maybe a CSA or rampie position with one of the airlines would be good as they usually come with travel benifits but they dont make as much.

Are you starting your private all over again or do you get to continue where you are at now down there?

Hiya Tim

I am starting Pan Am may 7th. I currently have 12 hours total time, spread across a Piper Cherokee and Diamond Katana.

I have my student license, and am enrolled in the career pilot program for pan am.

Going to be attending the Fort Pierce campus however, I do not know to much about the Arizona one.

Just a question for you

Since you are getting your degree, you are looking to get a job based on that degree?

The reason I ask is that, if you do get a job, and most likely a good one based on your schooling, you are going to have to turn around and tell them you are leaving for pan am in a short after hire time.

Just a thought I had.
Anyhow, any decision you make to reach that flying goal is well worth it.

I'll let you know anything that comes my way

Auf wiedersehen
If you ask for people's opinion- don't say you don't want to hear all the negative things- that's not much of an opinion. Most people have positive attitudes, and are actually glad they aren't attending anymore. I haven't met one person with a "destructive attitude", they just realized they got screwed and are telling there stories. Also, people didn't get screwed recently due to 9-11. They got screwed because of the company. Yes there are horror stories about every school, but it has nothing to do with 9-11. I don't go there anymore, but I have a lot of friends that do. It has it's ups and it has it's downs. I can answer some of your questions:

Also what bridge programs (if any) do theys have going now?

Everything is the same as it's always been.

Is anyone hiring from from Pan Am yet?

Only Airnet. Two of my buddies just left for training.

Also is the ACE program still going and has anyone graduated from it yet?

There have been a few grads and they are instructing at Pan Am now.

Are students coming in with a PPL looked down on or at a disadvantage?

??? Depends if you now your sh*t or not

Good luck- and next time when you ask for opinions, look for things from both sides, not just someone sugar coating it and saying everything you want to hear.
Actually things at Pan Am are going very well. Three instructors just left for Air Net, one just got hired by Chicago Express and three more that I know of are interviewing in the next two weeks. The industry definately seems to be on the rise again. And yes I am a current student at Pan AM in the Phx location.
Hey Hutch, good to hear from you...

Can you tell me about what the schedule is like for the average student down there? Is it reasonable, or are you flying at 8 am with a huge break and then again at like 9 pm and then scheduled for a simulator at 1 am.

Also how much ME time can you get there now? I heard they changed the syllabus recently and you can do your instrument rating in a ME a/c.

Thanks for the reply, Tim
"Actually things at Pan Am are going very well. Three instructors just left for Air Net, one just got hired by Chicago Express and three more that I know of are interviewing in the next two weeks. The industry definately seems to be on the rise again. And yes I am a current student at Pan AM in the Phx location."

Ummmm yes I too was a student @ Panam....we both probably very well passed by eachother there. In fact, I worked at dispatch. Panam is a "PilotMill" with the intention of strictly making money. If you knew who (multiple who's) owns Panam you would see why I say it is a "PilotMill". I got really screwed there and they even admitted to screwing me...sooo....much that they didn't make me pay them the $2500.00 or sooo it is to withdraw. I could very well sue Panam for the shi* I had to go through. Having to have 6 instructors for my private license and thats only the tip of the iceburg and believe me it gets sooooo much worse. Mike Brenner is the only instructor I knew there that actually made it through and did a damn well job too might I add. He is 20 yrs. just like me.I dunno how he did it. Well there's my 2 cents about crappy Panam. I wish you the best Hutch, I seriously do. There only 2 of my fellow students that are still there....the other 12 dropped out -side note-. Pretty sad. -ifrflight-
Are all you guys that didn't make it through their program, or "got screwed" still flying?

What kind of experience did you have when you went there?

What ratings did you end up with when you finally left Pan Am?
Yes- I'm still flying, in fact, I'm the only one out of my class at Pan Am that didn't quit and has finished all the ratings. I'm currently an instructor. I left Pan Am after my Multi, and saved a lot of money by doing it, not to mention time. As far as the experience, all it has to do with is $$$$$. If you don't mind paying for a WAY over priced school- then go for it. But they will milk every dime out of you. Good Luck. By the way, I know of a few Ace graduates but they don't have jobs, some not even CFI jobs @ Pan Am!!

Hey Hutch- were you at the going away party for the guys heading to airnet?

Hey Ifrflight- were you a dispatch worker around May - June of last year, that's when I left- just wondering if we crossed paths.

Good luck to everyone
Hey Tim,

Getting your Private before enrolling in a carrer-type school is a great idea. If you learn to fly in Colorado, you can fly anywhere.

You should really begin training as soon as you graduate. I worked full time while earning my PPL and it took about 6 months. It was a great experience.

I'm sure the big schools will still be around by the time you're done with your PPL... and I'm sure they will be very happy to take your money then.

Who knows, maybe you'll like the schools in CO?? You should have plenty of opportunities to instruct there, and lots of great flying experience (weather, mountains). If you are seriously interested in a fast track program, go to ATP. I have 2 good friends there right now (both ex-pan-am students) and they love it. They fly cross country, get twin time and have awesome MEI's. I got my IR at Pan Am and left for the same reasons half of my classmates did. I am getting my ratings just as fast at half the price, and having a great time.

Best of luck.
I'm still flying with Pan Am in Ft. Pierce. This place is crazy with changes which is overflowing to the student's. By that i mean the management is just trying out new ways to as they say "give the student more for their money" which results with the students being treated like lab rats.

I've got a few friends who did the route flying and ACE program (had great things to say about the ACE program for the most part), but are still working on their initial CFI. The problem is Pan Am hired so many instructors from outside the school a few months back that there's quite a wait if you want to instruct here. Also, people who spend the most money on training here get put at the top of the list as far as hiring goes; even if it will still take a few months to get hired. I try to take it life at Pan Am like an alcoholic; one day at a time.
Hey Tim,
Scheduling has not been a problem at all. Tell them when you want to fly and you fly. I got my private pilot in 2 months, very happy with that. I feel the training I recieved was very good and I am very comfortable in the plane now. I am at the end of my time building stage right now. Been to Vegas, Palm Springs, Albuquerque and serveral other cool airports on solo cross countries. So yes, PanAm does prepare you. As far as ME time, if you do the career program you will end up with 100 hrs. You do not get your instrument in the ME...that's flight Safety I beleive. You get all your ME time in the route program which I beleive is better.

Keephopealive...I met you at the pool in the retreat, I was actually flying the day of Clarke's going away party. I heard it was a blast, sorry I missed it.

Well got to go and plan...flying into LAS to complete my night x-country.
Rich Clarke is leaving???? Where is he going? Man I bet i missed a good party @ the retreat and good karaoke too! Yah hey Keephopealive I started working in dispatch 1st part of August. so we just missed each other probably, unless you came in or something...hmmmmm. anyway. later fellows -ifrflight-

P.S. Loraine Steinkirchner is A HOTTIE flight instructor @ Panam....almost made it worth the $15,000.00 i spent at the damn place! HAHAHA! fellows if you saw her you would me

P.S.S. yah I'm still flying and hopefully will be instructing @ FIT next fall hmmm I wanna finish my degree there. i dunno... yah i agree with Keephopealive about Panam choking your choda for all of your money $$$$$$. but what can you say its a pilotmill. i've seen some good mills and some very bad...panam in my opinion sucks.
If you are going to pay that much money, go to Flight Safety. Known product, cheaper, and not nearly as many complaints on this board.

My opinion, good luck.
All right guys and gals, here is the deal... If you're going to go to a flight school, first check the Better business bureau, then do your best to answer three questions......How many people that started there work there (a good school will run 50%), how much $ can you afford to lose?, and has anyone ever been hired by a regional that is "partnered" with their school.

I read in a post a while back someone was bragging about Pan Am pilots going to airnet. While I respect their choice and Air Net, the simple fact is that Air Net is not a trophy job for a flight school that claims to have hiring ties to regional carriers. I'm sure if you ask those instructors, they will tell you they took the best offer they could to get out of the Pan Am machine.

As for the instructor that was hired by Chicago express, do you have any idea how much time and pain that person went through to get that job? I challenge you to find more than five people from Pan Am PHX in the last three years that are working for the regionals or better! Please remember that the last two years were the best pilot hiring times since Vietnam.

Good luck, good hunting and remember that nothing is given to you no matter how attractive and glossy the ads appear!
As well, the instructor/asst chief flight instructor/stagecheck pilot that got hired by Chicago Express was so miserable at PanAm he confided in me directly about the mess this school was making. Short and concise, I respect those comments especially when it came from him. The whole lie about how one needs to keep up with the "fast-paced" flight training environment is in itself a joke. This school took on average 10-12 days at a time to get a student scheduled for their famous "stagechecks". This was usually because PanAm's current instructors didn't have the balls or the ability to pass a Part 141 stagecheck pilot checkride. Hmmmm. Gotta wonder a little about that. There is no fast paced environment when the school itself is the hampering ingredient towards your personal success. That is what killed my love for flying for several weeks. The fun of flying just left me until I went to a small private FBO and learned what it was like to learn in a relaxed and fun atmosphere without Hitler's boot on your every move. The rules concerning cross-country time in other FBO's aircraft borders on communism. It felt like training in Cuba. I laugh at those who really think the all mighty sacred PanAm is difficult and claim it as being close to going to TopGun. What a hoot! Its actually only for those flying homo 20-year olds with no college degree, no life experience, and daddy's checkbook to live on. When you have eaten out of life's crap buffet line talk to me about real experience. Oh yeah, until then, I hear AirNet is hiring some real hotshot stick and rudder PanAmers for their super-duper Baron cargo program, sounds exciting!!!!!!!
AGE: 24
EDUCATION: Bachelor of Arts in Environmental Design graduated cum laude
CURRENT: student at Panam Fort Pierce campus
SEXUAL ORIENTATION: her name is Maria, but what if i was gay would it really matter
METHOD OF SCHOOL PAYMENT: personally secured loans for college and flight training and make regular monthy payments

how much education and life experience does it take to have an attitude like that and go around gay bashing and making generalized assumptions of people who are trying to achieve a goal in life, cause really, i would like to know so i could stop before i reach that point