Corporate Pilots!

I'm afraid you will have to be more specific. Ask specific questions and you'll get specific answers.

Pay is dependent upon seat (Captain/First Officer), type of aircraft, location, type of company (Fortune 500, etc.), schedule, etc...
 
Boieng747pilot said:
Hey guys,

I want some first hand experiences on how the corporate buis works.
Click to expand...

ZapBrannigan said:
I'm afraid you will have to be more specific. Ask specific questions and you'll get specific answers.
Click to expand...

Boieng747pilot said:
No, I just want some experiences from people who worked on the corporate gig!:banghead:
Click to expand...
boieng,

Come on buddy,

Zap is actually trying to help you out there. You asked for experiences...Zap said to be specific... you said "No...:banghead:".

Trust me on this one... you aren't the only one reading this thread banging your head. ;)

I know for a fact that he and everyone on this site is willing to help you... by god there's nothing more that a pilot want's than to just talk about his work at times... but you are asking questions way too broadly. It's not always as simple as asking "Tell me what it's like to be a pilot everyday..." without folks printing up a 5 page thesis.

Folks on here are more likely to answer your questions if they are well thought out, and to the point.

Did you see Zap's type ratings & Instructor ratings in his signature line? He's one heck of a resource. I'd just follow his guidance on this one.

Bob

PS: There's some great references on the www.jetcareers.com homepage... Have you read those yet?

Jason Cutter wrote a great "Day in the life" article about being a corporate pilot.

A Day In The Live Of A Corporate Pilot

Also, Julie's got a Perspectives Article about flying for JetCorp.

Perspectives: Julie-Ann Nydegger, JetCorp

Both are great articles that may give you more insight.
 
Here is a vague answer to a vague question....

I couldn't tell ya a thing about Kennedy, Logan or Hartsfield-Atlanta.......However, Teterboro, Bedford and Peachtree are just dandy....:crazy:get it?

Heres another one........PIC (Paper, Ice, Coffee)

And with all due respect man, your intent and enthusiasm is great, but you just may be over stepping your boundrys too quickly. Instead of spending all this time on jetcareers, posting questions that wont apply to you for sometime, maybe you should be using your time to getting your ppl.

next time you have the urge to post one of these career questions, pull out the gleim and get ready for the written, and if you have already finished that, than either study for the oral, or do a weight and balance or something...

I'm not trying to be a dick, but your questions are along the lines of a 10 year old kid who plays pop warner football, asking where you can find scholarship forms and applications to Ohio State and Notre Dame.

Get your chit done, and specify your questions, and there are tons of people on here who will respond, including myself =).
 
MikeOH58 said:
next time you have the urge to post one of these career questions, pull out the gleim and get ready for the written, and if you have already finished that, than either study for the oral, or do a weight and balance or something...
Click to expand...

That is soo true, waht am I at now, 3,000+ posts....not exactly time wasted, but time not spent wisly.
 
I feel somewhat qualified to speak to careers at both the airlines (i've worked at 3 regionals, an LCC, and a major) and corporate (I currently work at a Fortune 500).

I can not speak for what life is like at a charter (135) or fractional.

I agree with the poster who suggested it is much too early for you to become singularly focused on one segment of aviation. You have quite a bit of experience to be gained before you even need to consider such a decision.

However, from an academic standpoint I am more than happy to share with you how I came to the decision to seek employment with a corporate flight department.

There are a few things to consider before you look at this list though. I took my first flying job within six months of graduating college. It was as a freight pilot flying a light twin. Less than a year later I was working for a commuter (we called them commuters back when we flew 19 seat turboprops with no autopilot). I was 22 years old and on the fast-track for the airline career. By 25 I was a DC9 copilot for a low-cost carrier who furloughed me six months later. Even then I was not deterred and less than six months after that I was flying for a major airline before I was 26.

At 29 I reached the Pinnacle of my airline career as a 737 first officer, with a great line flying Thurs-Sun of every week. I was paid over $90,000/yr and was "living the dream"... until 9/11.

Since 9/11 I worked for 2 regionals (furloughed once more in there) before ending up where I am now. Only a very lucky few were hired by Southwest or FedEx after 9/11. Over 6000 other furloughees industrywide ended up at placed like Vanguard (who went out of business), ATA (who furloughed them again), flying expatriot (where a Jewish fella like me might lose his head!), or returning to fly regional jets as first officer to a Captain with a fraction of the experience.

It was humbling and unsatisfying. Worse yet, while we were on furlough the vast majority of our former narrowbody flying (from the majors) was outsourced to larger and larger RJs. The compensation, workrules, lifestyle, and retirement from our former majors was decimated....so what was there to go back to?

In 2002 I interviewed with SWA... but was turned down. I have never been fortunate enough to score an interview with FedEx. In the meantime I had gotten married and was spending far too little time with my spouse.

In 2004 I was flying as an RJ F/O for Comair when, on an overnight, I ran across a corporate pilot who was kind enough to give me a tour of his flight department. The company was profitable, the equipment was good, and their schedule fantastic. A few weeks later he asked if I would like to send him a resume for the next time they hired. (Most corporate departments only hire when someone resigns or retires... very rarely).

I did, and a year later I was flying a 17,000 pound Learjet. A far cry from the 146,000 pound Boeing I had flown just 5 years earlier.

How did I make the decision? I made a list of pros and cons. My list probably differs from yours. After all, we can only draw from our own experience... what is a negative to me, might be a positive for you. But here is what I came up with. Please feel free to share your experiences and tell how you made the decisions YOU made.

Things that make me happy about being a corporate pilot vs. an airline pilot:
  1. No more hats (yes, I wore mine like I was told)
  2. No more ties
  3. No more dragging my rollaboard around with a 50 lb flight-kit attached
  4. No more dragging said rollaboard through ice/snow in the employee lot
  5. No more employee lot busses lacking air-conditioning, heat, and shocks
  6. No more waiting at employee lot bus-stops
  7. No more entering security codes at every &%@$# door in the building
  8. No more TSA telling me to take off my shoes
  9. No more TSA inspecting my flashlight for the 40th time
  10. No more TSA telling me to remove my hat
  11. No more TSA leaning in to smell my breath
  12. No more TSA
  13. No more gate agents taking their good ol' time printing the release
  14. No more waiting for gate agents to give you access to your airplane
  15. No more waiting for jetway drivers
  16. No more calling ops to ask for said jetway driver & being told, "shift change"
  17. No more flight attendants calling up front because it's too hot, cold, bumpy, etc...
  18. No more flight attendants sitting in first class doing soduku puzzles instead of providing customer service
  19. No more flight attendants whining about not getting crew meals
  20. No more flight attendants whining when they DO get crew meals
  21. No more APU's deferred with no ground air carts available
  22. No more waiting for the hotel van
  23. No more roadside fleabag hotels
  24. No more :40 van rides to some long-overnight hotel contractually required to be next to a shopping mall for the F/As
  25. No more apologies for being away on every weekend, holiday, or special occasion
  26. No more watching flying be outsourced to the lowest bidder
  27. No more watching ALPA spend dues on "strongly worded letters"
  28. No more ALPA (thats the best part!)
  29. No more dilapidated "crew rooms"
  30. No more junior manning or extensions
  31. No more pagers
  32. No more calls from scheduling at 2am to transition you from regular reserve to short-call
  33. No more quick-calls to go to Akron and back
  34. No more racing through the terminal and grabbing a McValue Meal during a 15 minute break
  35. No more equipment changes every time you fly through the hub
  36. No more nastygrams from the company whenever you're in negotiations
  37. No more feeling ashamed at the lack of customer service the company provides.
  38. No more apologizing for weather, aircraft size, ATC delays, mechanical delays, etc.
  39. No more groundschools in converted hangars or old elementary schools.
  40. No more Jepp revisions
  41. No more Christmas dinner at a Denny's in Philadelphia
  42. No more crashpads in a two bedroom apartment with 9 air mattresses on the floor because the company closed my domicile...again
  43. No more 12 hour 4 day trips because the company took away the rigs
  44. No more 4 hour "airport appreciation" sits in Philly
  45. No more being afraid to do the walkaround in Chicago because you might be wearing an unfriendly gang color!
  46. No more passengers asking you where they pick up their bags as they get off of the airplane
  47. No more smart remarks such as, "Did you wind the rubberbands?" or "Oh my god it's so SMALL!" as passengers board
  48. No more family members asking, "When are you going to fly the BIG planes again?"
  49. No more watching your name get shuffled to the bottom of the seniority list after each subsequent furlough...starting over every three years until you realize that you may never upgrade before you retire.
  50. and finally... no more turning on CNN every night and wondering whether the airline is still in business.
Ok. So my current job isn't perfect. The airplane is hot in the summer and FBO deicing crews are clueless in the winter. Corporate crews are behind the power curve a little bit with regard to CRM and standardization. But, at the end of the day, I haven't missed a Christmas or a Thanksgiving since i've been here. I'm home almost every weekend. I sleep in my own bed every night. I don't know whether my department will survive until I retire, but I am much less concerned with the company's long-term viability than I was at the airlines.

So, I rolled the dice on this one and we'll see what happens. Who knows? Maybe 5 years from now i'll be at the bottom of the list at some regional again. But for now, I think...I hope...I made the right decision.

Oh, and by the way, I received my final recall letter from the major I worked for in September. I didn't go.

Hope this helps.
 
Wow Zap! You should write a book. Maybe you just did. You can call it "Things the movies never show you". Amazing post. Thanks.
 
Great post Zap!! Cool to hear from someone that has worked in various areas of aviation.

BTW you forgot to list your time as command of The Nimbus :)
 
Sorry guys,

Guess the question is too vague.
Anyway, I'm actually asking these questions because they ARE coming up close. Could be a few years, maybe even months! I already have my ppl and working more on getting a job.

Anyway, I was asking you guys for any comparisons, like Zap's post. Very nice... THAnKS
 
Captain_Bob said:
boieng,

Come on buddy,

Zap is actually trying to help you out there. You asked for experiences...Zap said to be specific... you said "No...:banghead:".

Trust me on this one... you aren't the only one reading this thread banging your head. ;)

I know for a fact that he and everyone on this site is willing to help you... by god there's nothing more that a pilot want's than to just talk about his work at times... but you are asking questions way too broadly. It's not always as simple as asking "Tell me what it's like to be a pilot everyday..." without folks printing up a 5 page thesis.

Folks on here are more likely to answer your questions if they are well thought out, and to the point.

Did you see Zap's type ratings & Instructor ratings in his signature line? He's one heck of a resource. I'd just follow his guidance on this one.

Bob

PS: There's some great references on the www.jetcareers.com homepage... Have you read those yet?

Jason Cutter wrote a great "Day in the life" article about being a corporate pilot.

A Day In The Live Of A Corporate Pilot

Also, Julie's got a Perspectives Article about flying for JetCorp.

Perspectives: Julie-Ann Nydegger, JetCorp

Both are great articles that may give you more insight.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i wasn't razzing him, just wanted some first hand comparisons, like he put in his last post.
I know Zap is a very wise man as he helped me MANY times before on my other very stupidly worded threads. He's a nice guy.

Thanks for understanding.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Things that make me happy about being a corporate pilot vs. an airline pilot:
  1. No more hats (yes, I wore mine like I was told)
  2. No more ties
  3. No more dragging my rollaboard around with a 50 lb flight-kit attached
  4. No more dragging said rollaboard through ice/snow in the employee lot
  5. No more employee lot busses lacking air-conditioning, heat, and shocks
  6. No more waiting at employee lot bus-stops
  7. No more entering security codes at every &%@$# door in the building
  8. No more TSA telling me to take off my shoes
  9. No more TSA inspecting my flashlight for the 40th time
  10. No more TSA telling me to remove my hat
  11. No more TSA leaning in to smell my breath
  12. No more TSA
  13. No more gate agents taking their good ol' time printing the release
  14. No more waiting for gate agents to give you access to your airplane
  15. No more waiting for jetway drivers
  16. No more calling ops to ask for said jetway driver & being told, "shift change"
  17. No more flight attendants calling up front because it's too hot, cold, bumpy, etc...
  18. No more flight attendants sitting in first class doing soduku puzzles instead of providing customer service
  19. No more flight attendants whining about not getting crew meals
  20. No more flight attendants whining when they DO get crew meals
  21. No more APU's deferred with no ground air carts available
  22. No more waiting for the hotel van
  23. No more roadside fleabag hotels
  24. No more :40 van rides to some long-overnight hotel contractually required to be next to a shopping mall for the F/As
  25. No more apologies for being away on every weekend, holiday, or special occasion
  26. No more watching flying be outsourced to the lowest bidder
  27. No more watching ALPA spend dues on "strongly worded letters"
  28. No more ALPA (thats the best part!)
  29. No more dilapidated "crew rooms"
  30. No more junior manning or extensions
  31. No more pagers
  32. No more calls from scheduling at 2am to transition you from regular reserve to short-call
  33. No more quick-calls to go to Akron and back
  34. No more racing through the terminal and grabbing a McValue Meal during a 15 minute break
  35. No more equipment changes every time you fly through the hub
  36. No more nastygrams from the company whenever you're in negotiations
  37. No more feeling ashamed at the lack of customer service the company provides.
  38. No more apologizing for weather, aircraft size, ATC delays, mechanical delays, etc.
  39. No more groundschools in converted hangars or old elementary schools.
  40. No more Jepp revisions
  41. No more Christmas dinner at a Denny's in Philadelphia
  42. No more crashpads in a two bedroom apartment with 9 air mattresses on the floor because the company closed my domicile...again
  43. No more 12 hour 4 day trips because the company took away the rigs
  44. No more 4 hour "airport appreciation" sits in Philly
  45. No more being afraid to do the walkaround in Chicago because you might be wearing an unfriendly gang color!
  46. No more passengers asking you where they pick up their bags as they get off of the airplane
  47. No more smart remarks such as, "Did you wind the rubberbands?" or "Oh my god it's so SMALL!" as passengers board
  48. No more family members asking, "When are you going to fly the BIG planes again?"
  49. No more watching your name get shuffled to the bottom of the seniority list after each subsequent furlough...starting over every three years until you realize that you may never upgrade before you retire.
  50. and finally... no more turning on CNN every night and wondering whether the airline is still in business.
Ok. So my current job isn't perfect. The airplane is hot in the summer and FBO deicing crews are clueless in the winter. Corporate crews are behind the power curve a little bit with regard to CRM and standardization. But, at the end of the day, I haven't missed a Christmas or a Thanksgiving since i've been here. I'm home almost every weekend. I sleep in my own bed every night. I don't know whether my department will survive until I retire, but I am much less concerned with the company's long-term viability than I was at the airlines.

So, I rolled the dice on this one and we'll see what happens. Who knows? Maybe 5 years from now i'll be at the bottom of the list at some regional again. But for now, I think...I hope...I made the right decision.

Oh, and by the way, I received my final recall letter from the major I worked for in September. I didn't go.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

YES! It is exactly what I needed. You should consider yourself a pilot encyclopedia.

THank You
 
Boieng747pilot said:
Yeah, i wasn't razzing him, just wanted some first hand comparisons, like he put in his last post.
I know Zap is a very wise man as he helped me MANY times before on my other very stupidly worded threads. He's a nice guy.

Thanks for understanding.
Click to expand...

Understood, but please understand that you should use the search function, too. There are lots of discussions on this in this section.
 
Boieng747pilot said:
YES! It is exactly what I needed.
Click to expand...

Um... ok. So do you have any questions? I mean, I tried to take your thread seriously and respond to you, I guess I assumed you would ask questions, or continue the conversation somehow...

Seems silly to start a thread for no reason.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Um... ok. So do you have any questions? I mean, .
Click to expand...


Hell of a post!

If you don't mind I would like to hijack this thread just a bit and ask you a couple of questions;

What kinda of time looks good on a resume for a charter outfit?

Would pictometry or Pipline survey hours be acceptable?

Thanks again for sharing your experience with us.
 
I have been a "corporate" rather a fractional pilot now for almost a year. I must tell you the quality of life has improved 10 fold. I actually enjoy my job, the flying in particular is much better because we fly everywhere, not just in and out of major hubs. I actually had a rotation a while back where we only flew into 4 airports of a 6 day trip that were towered. Of course sometimes flying in to nowheresville, usa and trying to get a ride to the hotel is a hastle, but beyond that it is definately worth it. Sometimes I will go a whole rotation where I will only see 1 or 2 airports that I have been to before, tell me you can get that in the airlines. (You can't, only because I know because I flew for an a regional based mainly out of DFW and ORD for almost 3 years) Hope this helps.
 
PGA07 said:
How are you enjoying that new "gig"?

Better QOL, pay and bennies I am sure!
Click to expand...


What's up bud? It's going well. Flying 2 of them 135 and 2 91. Pay is good, bennies are pretty status quo. Almost getting to much time off - 22 days last month and only flew about 30 hours or so. Kids are starting to wonder if I really have a job. :) I imagine in the next month or so I'll be wishing for so much time off as we are coming into the "season". 604 is a fantastic aircraft - really enjoying flying them. How's everything on your end - good I hope. Take Care.


Max
 
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