Controllers -- Things Pilot's Say That Annoy You.
- Thread starter PilotBeckfizzle
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Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Alright, I had a great one just today from a pilot:
Was working in a sector doing some rather creative vectoring with JFK arrivals for the required 15NM in trail spacing amidst all our other traffic.
Had a lone WestJet trucking along eastbound, and I guess he thought I was either working too hard and getting cranky, or doing a good job... I'd like to believe the latter, because when he left my sector:
"WJA761 contact center 133.55, g'day"
"WJA761, 33.55 now, take a day off!"
I laughed for a while about that one
Was working in a sector doing some rather creative vectoring with JFK arrivals for the required 15NM in trail spacing amidst all our other traffic.
Had a lone WestJet trucking along eastbound, and I guess he thought I was either working too hard and getting cranky, or doing a good job... I'd like to believe the latter, because when he left my sector:
"WJA761 contact center 133.55, g'day"
"WJA761, 33.55 now, take a day off!"
I laughed for a while about that one
kgflyboy
New Member
I'm the first to admit... I should already know the answer to this question, but I apparently don't. I respond to traffic advisories with "NXXXXX traffic in sight" if I see the other plane. Someone mentioned this is incorrect, so what is the correct terminology.
Someone else mentioned they didn't like the phrase "with you" when a pilot checks in on a new frequency. What is the correct terminology for this situation?
Thanks in advance for the information.
Someone else mentioned they didn't like the phrase "with you" when a pilot checks in on a new frequency. What is the correct terminology for this situation?
Thanks in advance for the information.
RetiredATLATC
Well-Known Member
Here's my biggest pet peeve.
DAL123 Heavy turn left heading 180..and all i get back is 180. Not heading or turning to a heading..just 180.
You would not believe the amount of times a pilot will do this and if it is not corrected the aircraft/pilot will climb to FL180.. I always always always issues headings in the increments of 5's..IE 185, 225 etc This way pilots will never mistake it for and altitude.
There must be dozens of times a day i used to have to go back and say "verify that you are turning to a heading of 180" and then get a smart alek response. It gets so bad that it takes three or four times sometimes to get what you are asking for..finally I'll say "DAL123 I dint want to be an ### but you keep saying 180 and i want you to turn to a heading of 180 and not bust your altitude to 180".
That usually gets the point across in a way that shows I'm trying to not be a jerk and want them to not get in trouble as well.
DAL123 Heavy turn left heading 180..and all i get back is 180. Not heading or turning to a heading..just 180.
You would not believe the amount of times a pilot will do this and if it is not corrected the aircraft/pilot will climb to FL180.. I always always always issues headings in the increments of 5's..IE 185, 225 etc This way pilots will never mistake it for and altitude.
There must be dozens of times a day i used to have to go back and say "verify that you are turning to a heading of 180" and then get a smart alek response. It gets so bad that it takes three or four times sometimes to get what you are asking for..finally I'll say "DAL123 I dint want to be an ### but you keep saying 180 and i want you to turn to a heading of 180 and not bust your altitude to 180".
That usually gets the point across in a way that shows I'm trying to not be a jerk and want them to not get in trouble as well.
whysoserial
New Member
"Whoever departure, xxxxx, 1,100 climbing [assigned altitude]".
"Whoever approach, xxxxx, level 5,500."
There's bits all up in the AIM about this stuff...chapter 5.
I realize it talks about "Center" but who gives a rip
ATC RET 2003
No More Vectors
"Say again?"
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I'm sorry for all the students I made you put up with who can't speak English when I was flight instructing at Alpha Tango.
Towerboss
New Member
SpiraMirabilis - it was you!!!!! Who you fly for now? Alpha Tango is dangerous.
Kgflyboy - whysoserial is correct. You should use the radio the way it describes in the AIM. The example uses CENTER but the wording at 2 (a) When operating in a radar environment.... applies to TRACON airspace too.
Kgflyboy - whysoserial is correct. You should use the radio the way it describes in the AIM. The example uses CENTER but the wording at 2 (a) When operating in a radar environment.... applies to TRACON airspace too.
That is the correct phraseology from the Pilot/Controller Glossary. What did the other person this was correct?
Also from the P/CG, if you don't see the other traffic the correct phraseology is "Negative contact". The positive reponse "Traffic in sight", and the negative response "Negative contact" do not share any common words which is intentional.
Use the P/CG and AIM for your questions on phraseology. It's all in there but few seem to read it.
You left out a couple of words from the AIM example:
"[Facility] Departure, N12345, LEAVING one-thousand one-hundered, climbing TO [assigned altitude]."
beechpilot
Well-Known Member
I usually say "so long" quite a bit. That one and "see ya" are pretty common.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Mesa or "Air Shuttle" on the radio. Don't fly into SAT anymore though, fly the Dash-8 in Denver.
And yes, Alpha Tango is dangerous. Their maintenance is not so great. Hehe, my students were all good kids though. They're probably all back in India flying an Airbus or ATR now or something. I started looking for a new job when I found out about and didn't feel comfortable with some of the things Hameed was doing, which were illegal.
scooter2525
Very well Member
Do controllers prefer the callsign at the beginning of a response or the end?
APP: ABC123, descend maintain 3,000.
1.Pilot: Descend maintain 3,000, ABC123.
OR
2.Pilot: ABC123, descend maintain 3,000.
APP: ABC123, descend maintain 3,000.
1.Pilot: Descend maintain 3,000, ABC123.
OR
2.Pilot: ABC123, descend maintain 3,000.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Interesting about the "leaving" and "to".
It seems like saying climbing or descending in the transmission would automatically imply "leaving".
I also purposely omit the "to" because it seems ambiguous to put a homophone for the number 2 in front of a frequency, heading, speed, or altititude assignment.
Other things I do that may be non standard:
I report my altitude in one hundred foot increments in the flight levels ex: "flight level two one eight climbing flight level three zero zero".
I readback speed assignements the same as I would a flight number "maintain speed two-fifty" in order to avoid confusion with heading or altitude assignments.
Checking on I say "airline twelve thirty four, level, three zero zero" whereas I suppose correct phraseology would be "airline one two three four, maintaining flight level three zero zero" (I do actually use the second one on international flights).
These are things I was told to do back 4 years ago by check airmen when on my first few flights, and are probably incorrect per the aim, but still seemed reasonably good ideas, so I stuck with them.
It seems like saying climbing or descending in the transmission would automatically imply "leaving".
I also purposely omit the "to" because it seems ambiguous to put a homophone for the number 2 in front of a frequency, heading, speed, or altititude assignment.
Other things I do that may be non standard:
I report my altitude in one hundred foot increments in the flight levels ex: "flight level two one eight climbing flight level three zero zero".
I readback speed assignements the same as I would a flight number "maintain speed two-fifty" in order to avoid confusion with heading or altitude assignments.
Checking on I say "airline twelve thirty four, level, three zero zero" whereas I suppose correct phraseology would be "airline one two three four, maintaining flight level three zero zero" (I do actually use the second one on international flights).
These are things I was told to do back 4 years ago by check airmen when on my first few flights, and are probably incorrect per the aim, but still seemed reasonably good ideas, so I stuck with them.
Alpha Lima
New Member
We need the leaving to validate your Mode C. Example
"Departure N123AB, leaving one thousand two hundred for five thousand, on course."
Departure needs 3 things, some sort of radar identification (5-3-2 & 5-3-3) usually a departure roll call, we need to validate your mode C which has to indicate within 300 feet of your reported altitude, and your assigned altitude.
And in a non radar environment when you report leaving we can use the altitude, but without a report its not usable. So if your told to climb and maintain 10,000 and just say "N123AB 10,000" without reporting out of 9,000 then its not usable.
"Departure N123AB, leaving one thousand two hundred for five thousand, on course."
Departure needs 3 things, some sort of radar identification (5-3-2 & 5-3-3) usually a departure roll call, we need to validate your mode C which has to indicate within 300 feet of your reported altitude, and your assigned altitude.
And in a non radar environment when you report leaving we can use the altitude, but without a report its not usable. So if your told to climb and maintain 10,000 and just say "N123AB 10,000" without reporting out of 9,000 then its not usable.
Yank&BankmyRJ145
New Member
I say altitudes like FL250 , flight level two five zero. Speeds I say 210kts speed two ten. Headings 180, left or right turn heading one eight zero. But I always but heading in front of my heading assignments.
So ATC guys, Why is it when I climb say over 6000fpm ya'll freakout and ask my altitude leaving, which comes back rapidly like 2,3,4,5,6, thousand and climbing. A F-16 guy told me its the computer can not keep up, and that why they ask for unrestricted climbs. Any thoughts?
I missed I call for Houston center today while running some abnormal checklists, And told him to say again I was on a land line. He laughed and asked who I was talking to? I said dispatch and he stopped laughing quick like and asked if we had any problems. I said yes but nothing that affects the flight today except no autopilot. Any who I was just happy to tell center what they always tell us. "Say again I was on a land line"
So ATC guys, Why is it when I climb say over 6000fpm ya'll freakout and ask my altitude leaving, which comes back rapidly like 2,3,4,5,6, thousand and climbing. A F-16 guy told me its the computer can not keep up, and that why they ask for unrestricted climbs. Any thoughts?
I missed I call for Houston center today while running some abnormal checklists, And told him to say again I was on a land line. He laughed and asked who I was talking to? I said dispatch and he stopped laughing quick like and asked if we had any problems. I said yes but nothing that affects the flight today except no autopilot. Any who I was just happy to tell center what they always tell us. "Say again I was on a land line"
Alpha Lima
New Member
alot of it is just that, the computer sometimes cant keep up. The radar takes 5 seconds to go all the way around so if your climbing hard enough it will come back to you and see such a large difference it will display XXX for the altitude.
Do you mean this situation:
"Afternoon, Atlanta approach, Soanso123 9 and a half descending to 7,000"
"Roger, Soanso123. Runway 8L"
"Roger"
ATLTRACON, do you work that sector in atl?
Don't try to out-think the AIM. What's in there is in there for good reasons. If we all followed it there would be a lot less confusion on the frequency.
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