Contract pilots

Xcaliber

El Chupacabra
I just thought of this yesterday. I am moving to a new job next week, and it's 7 on/ 7 off. Assuming my new gig allows me to fly on my days off, what do I need to do/should I look at to become a contract pilot? I am CE-500 SIC current, and might even get typed this summer (crossing my fingers on that one). So I guess my question is, how does this whole contract flying thing work?
 
It's a combination of referrals, who you know and "right place right time" stuff.

Get your info out there and good luck!

-mini
 
Also remember your commerical time limits. That would be a big opps if you go over your hours on your "other" job and can't fly your normal job. This is the reason many places won't allow outside commerical flying.

=Jason-
 
It's a combination of referrals, who you know and "right place right time" stuff.

Get your info out there and good luck!

-mini

Just like any other job, eh? lol. I kinda figured as much. I've honestly never looked at contract flying before, I always assumed that my "normal" job would fill my time. Now that I've got 6-7 days off at a time, I'm pretty sure I'll get really bored, so doing some stuff on the side might be good. That's why I'm asking for this, is there anything I should be looking at that would be different from a normal job search? And not just the job search, but in the actual flying bit? Anything that might catch me off guard?

Also remember your commerical time limits. That would be a big opps if you go over your hours on your "other" job and can't fly your normal job. This is the reason many places won't allow outside commerical flying.

Yeah, thanks for the comment. My "normal" job is part 91, so I don't see too many issues with that. Really, the only issue I can think of is that I'm "on call", but I've been told that being called in will be limited to rare occurances. We'll see where that goes.

So yeah, what should I be looking for when it comes to contract work that might be different than a normal full time gig? Maybe there are a few websites that have some good information?
 
Just like any other job, eh? lol. I kinda figured as much. I've honestly never looked at contract flying before, I always assumed that my "normal" job would fill my time. Now that I've got 6-7 days off at a time, I'm pretty sure I'll get really bored, so doing some stuff on the side might be good. That's why I'm asking for this, is there anything I should be looking at that would be different from a normal job search? And not just the job search, but in the actual flying bit? Anything that might catch me off guard?



Yeah, thanks for the comment. My "normal" job is part 91, so I don't see too many issues with that. Really, the only issue I can think of is that I'm "on call", but I've been told that being called in will be limited to rare occurances. We'll see where that goes.

So yeah, what should I be looking for when it comes to contract work that might be different than a normal full time gig? Maybe there are a few websites that have some good information?
I've done the "on call" thing. Now, if it's a reputable company and you have a few days between trips, what happens if the owner has something pop up last minute, one time a year, type of thing, and you are on another trip?

I'll point you to pilots4rent.com. A lot of good information on there. Just remember where your bread is buttered when it comes to contract work on the side.

One last thing...remember those out there that don't have the "steady employment" to supplement your income. In other words, don't undercut your brethren. Word gets around VERY fast!

Good luck and enjoy!
 
I just thought of this yesterday. I am moving to a new job next week, and it's 7 on/ 7 off. Assuming my new gig allows me to fly on my days off, what do I need to do/should I look at to become a contract pilot? I am CE-500 SIC current, and might even get typed this summer (crossing my fingers on that one). So I guess my question is, how does this whole contract flying thing work?

Why not enjoy your days off and let one of the many unemployed pilots have the contract work?

Anyone who is lucky enough to have a full-time job in this market and is still picking up contract work is a first class prick.
 
Why not enjoy your days off and let one of the many unemployed pilots have the contract work?

Anyone who is lucky enough to have a full-time job in this market and is still picking up contract work is a first class prick.

Sorry to hear you got laid off Marshall.
 
Sorry to hear you got laid off Marshall.

Thanks. Fingers crossed for a speedy recall. :eek:


minitour said:
What if your new full time job is as a contract pilot?

-mini

You know what I mean, mini. Full-time contractors or sim instructors who do contract work I have no problem with. People with regular full-time flying jobs who pick up contract work for "something to do" or "beer money" when so many other pilots are on the street are scum.

Fortunately, a few companies and contract agencies actually try to use full-time contractors and/or unemployed pilots who are contracting because they have to. Wish more would do the same.
 
You know what I mean, mini. Full-time contractors or sim instructors who do contract work I have no problem with. People with regular full-time flying jobs who pick up contract work for "something to do" or "beer money" when so many other pilots are on the street are scum.

Fortunately, a few companies and contract agencies actually try to use full-time contractors and/or unemployed pilots who are contracting because they have to. Wish more would do the same.
Just checkin man...just checkin.

I'd much rather be full time employed right now than forced into full time contracting, but...payin the bills one way or another. I heard McDonald's is hiring...I could be lovin' it if this doesn't stay steady!

-mini
 
Anyone who is lucky enough to have a full-time job in this market and is still picking up contract work is a first class prick.

I disagree. nobody owes you anything just because you got laid off... I can see it being a bad deal if you personally know an unemployed and qualified pilot to take a contract trip and you still take it while being employed full time. other than that situation, get what you can.

I am a "full time" contract pilot myself and If I were to somehow find a full time gig, i would continue to do contract on a less frequent basis for this company if i could. Why not, the pay is pretty good at $400 a day!

At my last full time job, they didnt want us doing contract work on our days off and I would assume that is the norm at most companies.
 
Thanks. Fingers crossed for a speedy recall. :eek:




You know what I mean, mini. Full-time contractors or sim instructors who do contract work I have no problem with. People with regular full-time flying jobs who pick up contract work for "something to do" or "beer money" when so many other pilots are on the street are scum.

Fortunately, a few companies and contract agencies actually try to use full-time contractors and/or unemployed pilots who are contracting because they have to. Wish more would do the same.

Comments like there piss me off. He doesn't owe anyone anything and it's not like he's stealing jobs away. It's an open market. If someone wants a job apply and the best qualified guy gets it. This marekt sucks but I'm so sick of hearing guys bitch about the most rediculous things. Now people can't have more than one flying job.
 
I disagree. nobody owes you anything just because you got laid off...

Please show me where I said I am owed anything.

LOGS said:
Comments like there piss me off. He doesn't owe anyone anything and it's not like he's stealing jobs away. It's an open market. If someone wants a job apply and the best qualified guy gets it. This marekt sucks but I'm so sick of hearing guys bitch about the most rediculous things. Now people can't have more than one flying job.

Well that sounds swell. I don't know what planet you live on, but that is rarely how it works here on earth. Networking and word of mouth is the name of the game. Qualifications have little to do with it beyond a certain point. It is a free country and you can have as many flying jobs as you want. I'm not debating that. All I'm saying is, if someone is already employed full-time and is picking up contract work, they are taking away work from people who really need it like full-time contractors and unemployed folks relying on contract work to pay the bills. That's flat out selfish and greedy, but unfortunately the norm in this industry. I won't even get started on the losers out there who are undercutting everyone else and flying for free or close to it.

I love the excuses that come out in defense of the greedy and selfish, though. I bet there were very similar ones tossed around in '83-85, '89-91, etc.
 
Anyone who is lucky enough to have a full-time job in this market and is still picking up contract work is a first class prick.

People with regular full-time flying jobs who pick up contract work for "something to do" or "beer money" when so many other pilots are on the street are scum.

What? So the next time I get offered something on the side and I have nothing to do I should hunt someone else down and offer them the job first? I've got a future to save up for too...

I disagree. nobody owes you anything just because you got laid off... I can see it being a bad deal if you personally know an unemployed and qualified pilot to take a contract trip and you still take it while being employed full time. other than that situation, get what you can.

I am a "full time" contract pilot myself and If I were to somehow find a full time gig, i would continue to do contract on a less frequent basis for this company if i could. Why not, the pay is pretty good at $400 a day!

Now people can't have more than one flying job.

:yeahthat:
 
Where did I ever say you should do or have to do anything? I'm just stating my opinion. Do whatever you want. Karma is a bitch.
 
Where did I ever say you should do or have to do anything? I'm just stating my opinion. Do whatever you want. Karma is a bitch.

Got a C-500 type and live within an hour of SEE? if so, Ill call you next time we need a contract pilot... oh yeah, gotta do indoc and get your paperwork in order too (135 current??).:sarcasm:

you basically called everyone that does contract on the side while being employed full time a prick if I remember correctly. I think what you meant was strongly implied.

To be serious though, contract is a tricky situation of being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people. its mostly word of mouth. In my experience, its not like you can just all of a sudden get "hired" as a contract pilot somewhere unless, more often than not, you have a friend who also flies for the operator to get you in the door when they need someone. Its not as simple as you make it out to be, saying everyone sucks for taking contract gigs on their free time while other pilots are on the street... I guess thats the best way I can put it.
 
you basically called everyone that does contract on the side while being employed full time a prick if I remember correctly.

That pretty much sums it up, yeah. Of course there are exceptions, but that is my overall opinion.

To be serious though, contract is a tricky situation of being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people. its mostly word of mouth. In my experience, its not like you can just all of a sudden get "hired" as a contract pilot somewhere unless, more often than not, you have a friend who also flies for the operator to get you in the door when they need someone. Its not as simple as you make it out to be, saying everyone sucks for taking contract gigs on their free time while other pilots are on the street... I guess thats the best way I can put it.
Really? I had no idea. I was clueless as to how the whole thing works. Thanks for enlightening me. :rolleyes:

Or maybe, I've been hosed by greedy pricks who are already making six figures at their regular job and are picking up contract work in my type to pay for their vacation home, 5th ex-wife's alimony, sex change operation, etc.

Like I said, do whatever you want. Just because some people think you're a greedy prick for it certainly shouldn't stop you. The original poster asked a question about contracting on his 7 off for something to do. I merely suggested he enjoy his time off.

I had several opportunities to pick up contract work when I was working a 7/7-ish schedule. I didn't for a few reasons:

1.) I was conscious of the fact that there were people out there who actually needed the work
2.) I value my time off, and (here comes my final rant...)
3.) If people keep prostituting themselves out for contract work, "real" jobs are going to disappear. It's usually cheaper for a company to pay a lowballing contract pilot than it is to employ someone full-time and pay them benefits, vacation, sick time, etc. Most serious contractors charge the same rate as each other, and their rates are high enough to allow them to put some aside for things like health insurance and training and still put some in the bank. On top of that, they also charge per diem and/or all reasonable expenses paid. If everyone charged like this, it would be more cost-prohibitive for companies to use contractors and they would become a temporary staffing solution like they are meant to be. Empty seats then get filled with a regular, salaried pilots.

Instead, we have these clowns who already have full-time jobs, but pick up contract work because they have no life or for whatever other reason. It's even more aggravating when half the time it's these idiots who undercut the rate. Hey, they already have health insurance, their main employer pays for their recurrent, and this is just fun money, so why not charge half of what the rest of the contractors do?

By the way, I made a couple calls and did some research. $400/day for a typed Ce-500 pilot in SoCal is about $200/day too low. I suppose you are going to tell me that is because you are an F/O. Standard practice in contract work is one rate for domestic, one rate for international. Period. No separate rates for PIC and SIC.

But hey, keep on keepin' on and claw your way up on the backs of others. It's the aviation way. What do I know anyways? I'm just some loser on the internet with a difference of opinion.
 
It's even more aggravating when half the time it's these people who undercut the rate. Hey, they already have health insurance, their main employer pays for their recurrent, and this is just fun money, so why not charge half of what the rest of the contractors do?
That's what singes my ass hairs more than anything. Then those of us that depend on contract work to keep the electricity on get hosed.

...maybe we need a union. (insert stirring pot smiley)

-mini
 
Like I said, do whatever you want. Just because some people think you're a greedy prick for it certainly shouldn't stop you. The original poster asked a question about contracting on his 7 off for something to do. I merely suggested he enjoy his time off.

That really wasn't the tone of your first post.

I had several opportunities to pick up contract work when I was working a 7/7-ish schedule. I didn't for a few reasons:

1.) I was conscious of the fact that there were people out there who actually needed the work
2.) I value my time off, and (here comes my final rant...)
3.) If people keep prostituting themselves out for contract work, "real" jobs are going to disappear. It's usually cheaper for a company to pay a lowballing contract pilot than it is to employ someone full-time and pay them benefits, vacation, sick time, etc. Most serious contractors charge the same rate as each other, and their rates are high enough to allow them to put some aside for things like health insurance and training and still put some in the bank. On top of that, they also charge per diem and/or all reasonable expenses paid. If everyone charged like this, it would be more cost-prohibitive for companies to use contractors and they would become a temporary staffing solution like they are meant to be. Empty seats then get filled with a regular, salaried pilots.

Where in this thread did ANYONE mention lowballing for their contract rates? Its really not better for companies to rely completely on contract pilots. There is no guarantee they will have a crew when they need one if they rely solely on contractors.

Instead, we have these clowns who already have full-time jobs, but pick up contract work because they have no life or for whatever other reason. It's even more aggravating when half the time it's these idiots who undercut the rate. Hey, they already have health insurance, their main employer pays for their recurrent, and this is just fun money, so why not charge half of what the rest of the contractors do?

You do what you want, I respect that, but youre making many assumptions that i think are really unfair. Again, who said anything about undercutting anyone?

By the way, I made a couple calls and did some research. $400/day for a typed Ce-500 pilot in SoCal is about $200/day too low. I suppose you are going to tell me that is because you are an F/O. Standard practice in contract work is one rate for domestic, one rate for international. Period. No separate rates for PIC and SIC.

I call BS on this. $600 a day is NOT what the going rate is, not even for Captains. if you can get that, more power to you! Can you tell me who is paying Citation pilots $600 a day please? Im a greedy bastard and would love to make that much money.

SIC gets the same as PIC? yeaah riiight... Type rating is pretty much required and has nothing to do with how much you can make... its a prerequisite. Who did you call by the way? Clay Lacy? lol :sarcasm:


But hey, keep on keepin' on and claw your way up on the backs of others. It's the aviation way. What do I know anyways? I'm just some loser on the internet with a difference of opinion.

attitude like this will get you nowhere...

By the way, I do not have a full time job right now. I fly contract for one company right now and am busting my ass trying to find a full time job and/or more contract work. Last year, when I had a full time job and things were going better in the industry, I flew contract on a semi regular basis for 4 different operators on my days off. All 4 have since either sold their airplanes or are just not flying right now.

The money I saved from that year has allowed me to continue chasing the "dream". If would have had the attitude that you have about flying contract when youre employed full time, I wouldnt have been able to sit for a month and look for a new job after I got laid off and my old contract gigs dried up. i would have had to get another job outside of aviation to pay the bills. Luckily, because I had enough money saved up, I was able to live off that until I found the company I fly for now. I am just barely getting by as it is, but at least I am still making a living from flying. Heck, they even paid for my recurrent.

Sorry for being such a prick for trying to make a living flying airplanes.
 
I brought up lowballing because in my experience, it's the guys who fly full-time for one company and contract on the side who seem to do it. Like I said, it's just gravy for them and they aren't trying to pay health insurance, recurrent, and the mortgage with it. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that everyone does that. I'm also not saying that they are the only ones who do it.

If you'll unwind your panties for a moment and go back to earlier in the thread, you'll see that I said I have no problem with people who fly contract full-time. If you can make it work, great.

I call BS on this. $600 a day is NOT what the going rate is, not even for Captains.
Just repeating what I found out. I don't care if you believe me or not. I've never even sat in a Ce-500. $600 was at the top end- it would've been more accurate to say $5-600. You're only worth what you can negotiate.

SIC gets the same as PIC? yeaah riiight...
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. If you are an ATP, PIC typed/qualified and have time in type- there should be no difference in rate between PIC and SIC. Ask around.

Sorry for being such a prick for trying to make a living flying airplanes.
I see I struck a nerve. If you go back and look, I never called you anything. The word "you" in my previous posts is in general, not to you specifically. I will be more careful to make it perfectly clear in the future for anyone who has reading comprehension problems.

Look, you are not going to sway my opinion here. And that is that in general, I think it's kind of a dick move to run around picking up contract work while employed elsewhere full-time when there are so many other pilots out there who could use the work. Especially if you are undercutting the going rate. If you have a long-standing relationship with a particular operator- fine. If you have a unique type- fine. I'm pissed at the losers with regular flying jobs (fractionals, perhaps) who are out there contracting on their days off for "something to do" or "beer money" (when they're already making six figures) while the rest of us starve. If you can't understand where I'm coming from, then I'm sorry. I can't make it much clearer than that.

I'm done with this thread, the last word is all yours. Have a nice weekend. :hiya:
 
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