Congressmen may bring back airline regulation

[JOEFRIDAY2]

But isn't the business model kind of regulated also? Delta and US Air try to swap some gates and are told they have to divest a certain number. They come back with their plan and are essentially told they don't like who they've agreed to give the gates to. Wouldn't this be considered the government getting involved in the business model? IMHO, it's this "regulate when we want to, but do it inconsistently" that is the most detrimental. Either regulate or don't.

That deal with Delta and USAir involves swapping limited (and prized) flight slots at New York and Washington. The government wants to make sure that one airline does not get too much of the traffic into those major areas.

Joe

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Oberstar is a show pony and little more. Expect the same from the initiative.

Oberstar has always been a friend of pilot labor, and he's done a lot to help us out. He occasionally puts on a little show for the passengers, but he's always been a consistent friend for us.

I doubt he'll get anywhere with this, but I'm glad he's trying. Re-regulation is needed.

 

[mshunter]

But isn't the business model kind of regulated also? Delta and US Air try to swap some gates and are told they have to divest a certain number. They come back with their plan and are essentially told they don't like who they've agreed to give the gates to. Wouldn't this be considered the government getting involved in the business model? IMHO, it's this "regulate when we want to, but do it inconsistently" that is the most detrimental. Either regulate or don't.

Who makes this decision?

 

[Hacker15e]

The airlines are regulated. You don't see 25 hour student pilots flying airplanes, nor do you see your local car mechanic working on them. If the airlines were truly deregulated, anyone could fly the plane and work on it. There would be no requirements for safety of the aircraft or how they are operated. People would die all the time, but they would get significantly cheaper tickets.

I think you're completely missing the point of what "regulation" means in this context.

It doesn't have anything to do with qualifications of the pilots and mechanics operating/maintaining the aircraft.

 

[Mike H]

So this dumbass thinks regulating the industry will lower prices to consumers?

Well, it works so well with everything else they poke their snouts into.

Oh wait- it doesn't. Nevermind

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I think you're completely missing the point of what "regulation" means in this context.

It doesn't have anything to do with qualifications of the pilots and mechanics operating/maintaining the aircraft.

Not at all. I just wanted to point out that the airline industry is far from total deregulation. And quite honestly, I can't support total deregulation, because well, lots of people would die. I'm not sure if I can support what this re-regulation would be, until I've seen some concrete evidence of what it would cover.

 

[Boris Badenov]

As someone said earlier, airlines are now treated as national infrastructure, governed by the RLA, and bailed out when, surprise, they're insolvent again. This is not "deregulation". "Deregulation" in this context just means some animals are more equal than others.

That said, "re-regulation" would mean fewer, better jobs, and a whole lot of guys looking for that elusive second career at midlife. I'd probably be one of them. On the other (other) hand, commercial aircraft are simply not viable as a long term mass-transit solution from Peoria to Chicago. This has been clear for a long time to anyone who's been paying attention. My preference would be for a strong, non-elected federal oversight of mechanical and training safety, local or state boards which decide how the slots/gates/etc are divied up backed by some sort of federal oversight with teeth limited to preventing local backscratching, and both labor and management being free to price/strike/pay etc etc as they see fit within those bounds, free from congressional kickbacks.

But frankly, anything would be better than the current Frankenstein's Monster of pseudo-free market wage slavery and rampant corruption.

 

[Firebird2XC]

But frankly, anything would be better than the current Frankenstein's Monster of pseudo-free market wage slavery and rampant corruption.

Agreed!

I'll go on to say that at least the government is looking into the fact that nobody is minding the store at the airlines because the execs are too busy looting the cash registers.

'Bout time!

 

[germb747]

Given that 90%+ of all bills a "congressman" puts forth are killed on arrival, this will probably be one of them. The airlines won't be re-regulated, nor should they be. If an airline can't compete and deliver the best value to the customer, it should be eliminated and replaced by an airline than can. Deregulation encourages efficiency; back in "the day" you had half-full widebodies on routes that obviously didn't need them, and it cost a fortune to buy a ticket.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Given that 90%+ of all bills a "congressman" puts forth are killed on arrival, this will probably be one of them. The airlines won't be re-regulated, nor should they be. If an airline can't compete and deliver the best value to the customer, it should be eliminated and replaced by an airline than can. Deregulation encourages efficiency; back in "the day" you had half-full widebodies on routes that obviously didn't need them, and it cost a fortune to buy a ticket.

Now you've got the opposite end of the extreme- airliners that operate jammed to capacity and can't make enough money to generate a profit.

With the the way they cook the books at airlines these days and their apparent inability to profit, the way they cry to the government that they can't profit and need to be 'bailed out' all the time is a crime.

Government oversight and regulatory reform how the airlines do business would be welcome. Regulation in the form that it previously existed is a pipe dream- we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We can however improve on the current system we're saddled with where somehow everybody loses. At least on paper. We all know somewhere somebody is winning and it sure as hell isn't the labor base or the American people.

 

[Patrick]

Now you've got the opposite end of the extreme- airliners that operate jammed to capacity and can't make enough money to generate a profit.

With the the way they cook the books at airlines these days and their apparent inability to profit, the way they cry to the government that they can't profit and need to be 'bailed out' all the time is a crime.

Government oversight and regulatory reform how the airlines do business would be welcome. Regulation in the form that it previously existed is a pipe dream- we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We can however improve on the current system we're saddled with where somehow everybody loses. At least on paper. We all know somewhere somebody is winning and it sure as hell isn't the labor base or the American people.

I'm with you on this. I think some form of regulatory pressure in terms of the airline justifying to someone of a higher power how it arrived at its rate for a flight from point A to point B would go a long way to actually getting them to make money.

Re-regulation will never bring things back to where they used to be, but if the companies we work for could at least turn a profit, it would give us that much better of a chance at getting wage and QOL back.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I'm with you on this. I think some form of regulatory pressure in terms of the airline justifying to someone of a higher power how it arrived at its rate for a flight from point A to point B would go a long way to actually getting them to make money.

Re-regulation will never bring things back to where they used to be, but if the companies we work for could at least turn a profit, it would give us that much better of a chance at getting wage and QOL back.

Agreed. There's a definite lacking of responsibility and leadership at the airline management group level.

Odd fact: The new Eagle president was in the crew room... and OUT ON THE RAMP the other day in DFW.

First time I've EVER seen (or even heard) of a senior company official walking out in the heat to talk to line employees.

Weird.

 

[Patrick]

Agreed. There's a definite lacking of responsibility and leadership at the airline management group level.

Odd fact: The new Eagle president was in the crew room... and OUT ON THE RAMP the other day in DFW.

First time I've EVER seen (or even heard) of a senior company official walking out in the heat to talk to line employees.

Weird.

Hypothetically a good sign.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Hypothetically a good sign.

True. Or a Trojan Horse.

Time will tell.

 

[O&M]

This is just re-election year statement. Oberstar is appealing to the "little guy" (so-called) so that they will vote for him in November. Nothing will come of it.

I guess what interests me is the fact that so many people seem to want the government to take over the airline industry. You know, because they've done such a stellar job of everything else they've gotten their hands into.

The irony here is that airlines are probably more regulated now than they were when they were supposedly regulated. Pretty much everything they do comes under government scrutiny. Add to that the fact that the government keeps putting on restriction after restriction, all in the name of "security" and it's no wonder they can't make any money. Oh, and there's also the little matter of an out of date national airspace system, but that is a different matter.

Be careful what you wish for. If you want to see some kind of "control" asserted over how airlines operate, how long do you think it will be before that control spills over to airline employees?

 

[Blackhawk]

Now you've got the opposite end of the extreme- airliners that operate jammed to capacity and can't make enough money to generate a profit.

With the the way they cook the books at airlines these days and their apparent inability to profit, the way they cry to the government that they can't profit and need to be 'bailed out' all the time is a crime.

Government oversight and regulatory reform how the airlines do business would be welcome. Regulation in the form that it previously existed is a pipe dream- we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We can however improve on the current system we're saddled with where somehow everybody loses. At least on paper. We all know somewhere somebody is winning and it sure as hell isn't the labor base or the American people.

If the airline is not making a profit, let it fail. Then those left will be in a better position.
Government oversite, choosing who wins and who loses is not the way to go. You then have unintended consequences as idiots in DC who have no business experience at all run the airlines and taxpayers are left to foot the bill for another bloated government entity.
If you want improvement on the current system let the market work and eventually someone will come up with a model that works and people love- such as Southwest. Put government bureaucrats in charge and we will be left with a stifling system where innovation is crushed, cronyism rules. Just look at how airline contracts on routes use to be awarded. Some bozo in DC picked the winners and losers.
The American people are actually winning and getting what they want. In the old days only the wealthy could afford to fly and the common folk were left traveling by car- a more hazardous and time consuming mode of travel. Now the common man (or woman), can often afford to fly and fly much safer than in the old days.
Is labor losing? Arguable. Yeah, benefits are not what they use to be, but even as a regional captain I did okay and managed to amass a decent amount in my 401(k). Anyway, why should the airline industry be privileged? Heck, I'm upset that the candle industry was destroyed by electric lights. Maybe we should outlaw electricity so all the candle makers can make a good living again. Why should consumers be forced to pay more than the going rate for airline seats? After all, if you don't like working in the industry you are free to leave it and work in another industry.

 

[O&M]

To go along with that last post; Oberstar's comment about the 2.7 billion in bag fees carries with it the implication that somehow the little guy is getting screwed. I just don't see that as the case. If the customer who pays the fee obviously feels he is getting value for his money. Otherwise he wouldn't pay the fee.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Be careful what you wish for. If you want to see some kind of "control" asserted over how airlines operate, how long do you think it will be before that control spills over to airline employees?

Nonsense. This is the typical red herring argument that the far-right trots out to try to sway labor against regulation. In reality, regulation operated perfectly for 50 years in the airline industry, and it never "spilled over" into controlling wages or anything else on the employee side.

 

[WacoFan]

Nonsense. This is the typical red herring argument that the far-right trots out to try to sway labor against regulation. In reality, regulation operated perfectly for 50 years in the airline industry, and it never "spilled over" into controlling wages or anything else on the employee side.

You are a vocal proponent of re-regulation. Could you give everyone a 30,000 ft. overview of how you think it would work, how it would benefit the profession, consumers, and the US? It would be interesting to debate - we can use your thoughts as a baseline for the "pro-regulation" side. I think things could be learned. There is an entire generation that has no clue of what a regulated industry really looks like but just know bits and pieces of what they hear.

 

[jynxyjoe]

You are a vocal proponent of re-regulation. Could you give everyone a 30,000 ft. overview of how you think it would work, how it would benefit the profession, consumers, and the US? It would be interesting to debate - we can use your thoughts as a baseline for the "pro-regulation" side. I think things could be learned. There is an entire generation that has no clue of what a regulated industry really looks like but just know bits and pieces of what they hear.

me