Complaint about ATC

genot said:
Guy subsequently quizzed me on why we had so many airplanes and informed me he could beat the guy in front (uhhh, k. maintain 400 or greater) I got an unable . You still want my number? No you're getting my number.
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This might be one of the biggest disconnects between pilot and controller. The pilot sees he can beat the guy in front of him to the airport, but the controller sees he has eight more in front of them. Also, if you're two facilities away, it's not good enough to beat the guy in front of you to the airport. You have to beat him by a certain number of miles before you get to the next facility.
 
genot said:
Also, if you do, don't be "that guy". I'll never forget an LCC guy demanding every ATC phone number since east Jesus on check in because he'd been slowed to 250 which had been LOA with center 3 weeks prior. He was slowed to follow a Medivac PC12. Guy subsequently quizzed me on why we had so many airplanes and informed me he could beat the guy in front (uhhh, k. maintain 400 or greater) I got an unable . You still want my number? No you're getting my number.
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I've seen too many pilots around, who seem to think that they are the only airplane on ATCs plate.
 
Derg said:
If you want a hilarious, sad and professionally somewhat embrassing radio tirade, pull up Omaha ground control for Sunday, November 23 approx 1500 and listen for an American FO complain about his hold for departure because of weather.

"There's not a cloud within TWO HUNDRED MILES of DFW. Check again, I'll call you back after my walk around".
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Wait, this last Sunday? You're kidding, right?

Allow me to clarify: I'm not questioning the weather, I'm questioning the response to the weather delay.
 
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mojo6911 said:
I've screwed ATC plenty of times, so I feel like they have to screw me every now and then to balance the force. I do love it when I miss a radio call and get chewed out, but they can miss 3 or 4 in a row and just come back with "I was on the land line".
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I've started responding with "I was on the land line" if I miss a radio call - some think it's hilarious, other's...not so much.
 
MikeD said:
I've seen too many pilots around, who seem to think that they are the only airplane on ATCs plate.
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But it's such a big sky and I am pretty sure that I am the only one around here.

wol-033a-the-limit-is-the-sky.jpg
 
It's going to be awesome when TIS-B is operationally and pilots start letting me know what their sequence should be...
 
mojo6911 said:
I've screwed ATC plenty of times, so I feel like they have to screw me every now and then to balance the force. I do love it when I miss a radio call and get chewed out, but they can miss 3 or 4 in a row and just come back with "I was on the land line".
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Next time, just tell ATC you were on your cell phone.
 
Reminds me of the time I told AAL, "Cleared visual approach runway 22, remain at or above 6,000 til final for traffic in the pattern at Biggs Army Airfield."

He came back with a snotty, "Which is it, approach? Cleared visual or maintain six?"

I replied, "American XXX cancel visual approach, maintain 9,000, and turn left heading zero-four-zero. You're now number four for the runway." I then cleared the number two airliner in the sequence."

"Uh, American can take that visual approach clearance."

"American XXX unable. That is no longer an option. Maintain 9,000 and turn left heading zero-four-zero."
 
RDoug said:
Reminds me of the time I told AAL, "Cleared visual approach runway 22, remain at or above 6,000 til final for traffic in the pattern at Biggs Army Airfield."

He came back with a snotty, "Which is it, approach? Cleared visual or maintain six?"

I replied, "American XXX cancel visual approach, maintain 9,000, and turn left heading zero-four-zero. You're now number four for the runway." I then cleared the number two airliner in the sequence."

"Uh, American can take that visual approach clearance."

"American XXX unable. That is no longer an option. Maintain 9,000 and turn left heading zero-four-zero."
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They had to be difficult, and that's what they get. How hard is it to remain at or above a particular altitude, until reaching a particular geographic point, while on a visual approach? Unless American was planning on turning a 1 mile final, it shouldn't be an issue. Walk and chew gum there American.
 
MikeD said:
They had to be difficult, and that's what they get. How hard is it to remain at or above a particular altitude, until reaching a particular geographic point, while on a visual approach? Unless American was planning on turning a 1 mile final, it shouldn't be an issue. Walk and chew gum there American.
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He was trying to make a point about restrictions during a visual, but that has been a standard call arriving to RY22 for the NW for decades because of the BIF traffic pattern. But, back in the '80s when we were routinely running well over 1,000 ops a day, you really didn't have time for games. I'm thinking he thought I should have vectored him to the final with altitude restrictions until clear of traffic pattern, then issued the clearance, but in that case I'd still have made him number four because it would have tied up the frequency and potentially penalized everyone behind him.
 
RDoug said:
He was trying to make a point about restrictions during a visual, but that has been a standard call arriving to RY22 for the NW for decades because of the BIF traffic pattern. But, back in the '80s when we were routinely running well over 1,000 ops a day, you really didn't have time for games. I'm thinking he thought I should have vectored him to the final with altitude restrictions until clear of traffic pattern, then issued the clearance, but in that case I'd still have made him number four because it would have tied up the frequency and potentially penalized everyone behind him.
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I'm just not seeing what the problem is. I've gotten restrictions on a visual before a few times that I can remember, and they were never anything significant. "maintain 3000 until 10 mile final, cleared visual approach". Big whoop. If you as a pilot can't accept a restriction, can't make it work, or simply don't want to, then exercise some airmanship and don't accept the visual.
 
Unless you think it was a safety issue, or could lead to one, why bother? We all screw up, if you tell me that ATC has never covered your butt and you're already flying professionally, I don't believe you.

I've heard of some pretty funny complaints coming to SFO tower. Hell, most recently up here we had a European legacy complain that we didn't give them their gate number and made them "waste time" with a second call instead of an initial clearance. Welp, they pulled the tapes and the reply was something like "Dear Captain ____, your operations, who is to advise you of your assigned parking, reports no in-range call. Furthermore, please advise as to why you had called the ramp tower while holding between active runways rather than at taxiway Hotel as depicted on your required charts. Planning for your arrival into the non-movement area is not possible at such stage of taxi".

Like others said, could be a Pandora's box making something out of nothing. Seems like it usually is actually, and probably makes people feel dumb.
 
I remember going into IAD one evening and they were doing controller training. The controller left us at 4,000, despite several request for an approach clearance. When the controller finally cleared us for the approach we were far too close to land and refused the clearance. Another controller takes over and gave us turn vectored us all over the place before putting us backing in the sequence which of course made use late, the outbound late, and screwed a few connections. We finally land and get an agitated you need to call this number when you park. The captain ended up having to explain the situation and reason for not landing originally then the supervisor apologized and asked us if we wanted to pursue this any further. We just chose to drop the issue but I was shocked to be asked if we wanted to take it further.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
I remember going into IAD one evening and they were doing controller training. The controller left us at 4,000, despite several request for an approach clearance. When the controller finally cleared us for the approach we were far too close to land and refused the clearance. Another controller takes over and gave us turn vectored us all over the place before putting us backing in the sequence which of course made use late, the outbound late, and screwed a few connections. We finally land and get an agitated you need to call this number when you park. The captain ended up having to explain the situation and reason for not landing originally then the supervisor apologized and asked us if we wanted to pursue this any further. We just chose to drop the issue but I was shocked to be asked if we wanted to take it further.
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Sounds like you picked the right choice. Everyone deserves to learn and the occasional mistake, as long as no one was hurt everything basically worked out ok. (And those passengers were going into IAD they probably would have misconnected anyway.)
 
Dispatch_Ken said:
Sounds like you picked the right choice. Everyone deserves to learn and the occasional mistake, as long as no one was hurt everything basically worked out ok. (And those passengers were going into IAD they probably would have misconnected anyway.)
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I agree no need to put a speed bump in someones career. And you're probably right, no one ever made it from the old E gates back to the main terminals in time to connect to anything lol...
 
mojo6911 said:
I've screwed ATC plenty of times, so I feel like they have to screw me every now and then to balance the force. I do love it when I miss a radio call and get chewed out, but they can miss 3 or 4 in a row and just come back with "I was on the land line".
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I heard an AA pilot in KTUL tell a controller that he "was on the land line"... the controller said "great, I gave your DFW departure time to someone else". Ha.
 
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