Compensation for new dispatchers

[Flagship_dxer]

A big reason why the big four saw huge increases was that upper management needed to have a unified, integrated airline after mergers. This put dispatchers in the position of being able to demand higher wages because they basically had the upper hand. Management could have put their foot down and said no way but they would then have to continue running two different airlines. Dispatch contracts and the structure of the dispatch group while fairly similar have different nuances between airlines. An equipment swap is much more complex when both work groups are separate as that usually means a cancel and extra section to do it in order to abide by the two different contracts.

Also, the merged major airlines were in a contest to show the others whose pecker was biggest. So when one gave an increase, so did the other. It was a way to show everyone that they weren't the old bankrupt airlines anymore and were better than the other merged majors.

So far the regionals have not had such pressure. The merged regionals like 9E and EV were in competition to see who could be the biggest cheapskates post merger to look good to their mainline partners. Thus there was no pressure or desire to increase pay. The only reason regional pilots have seen an increase is because few pilots want to work for pennies and they were forced to raise pay to attract enough pilots.

 

[manniax]

Also, the merged major airlines were in a contest to show the others whose pecker was biggest. So when one gave an increase, so did the other. It was a way to show everyone that they weren't the old bankrupt airlines anymore and were better than the other merged majors.

I don't know if it was a case so much of airline management "showing off" who had the highest dispatcher pay rates so much as the dispatchers at all the big majors having clauses in their contract that they will be pay matched if another one gets a wage increase. United has this with Delta, Delta has this I believe with United, American, and possibly some others, etc.

Another thing to remember with the wage increases is - even though it's a non-trivial expense, the total dispatch budget is pretty small compared to an airline's bottom line. A major could double the pay rates of everyone in dispatch and it wouldn't materially affect their financial results - this is definitely not the case with pretty much any other work group who have thousands of members in each union.

So, I think it was a combination of many factors - pressure to merge employee groups (as you previously mentioned), the fact that majors are now profitable after many years of struggling and thus couldn't keep saying they were unable to afford to pay more, etc. I hope that regional salaries also start to trend upward as contracts are renewed - they have gone up since I started in the industry (at the princely sum of $9.60 an hour) but they haven't really done much more than keep up with the rate of inflation.

 

[DxDD]

Some great points, especially about how small of a group dispatchers are, and that even if Dispatcher salaries were doubled it would not have any effect their bottom line. For example, on average, a major airline hires about 20 dispatchers a year and about 17 000 flight attandents... also if you were to remove dispatchers from an airline the insurance would skyrocket immediately, just look at all the things airlines have to do and demonstrate to their insurance company on yearly bases just to keep their cover low...

 

[FXMXC]

Some great points, especially about how small of a group dispatchers are, and that even if Dispatcher salaries were doubled it would not have any effect their bottom line. For example, on average, a major airline hires about 20 dispatchers a year and about 17 000 flight attandents... also if you were to remove dispatchers from an airline the insurance would skyrocket immediately, just look at all the things airlines have to do and demonstrate to their insurance company on yearly bases just to keep their cover low...

Thats a big reason DXers make the top money they do at the majors if they were the size of the MX group I don't think it would be near what it is now . I never bought into the strength in numbers argument the industrial unions like to say to the other ground groups. A small certificated specialized group is where it is at.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

I don't know if it was a case so much of airline management "showing off" who had the highest dispatcher pay rates so much as the dispatchers at all the big majors having clauses in their contract that they will be pay matched if another one gets a wage increase. United has this with Delta, Delta has this I believe with United, American, and possibly some others, etc.

Another thing to remember with the wage increases is - even though it's a non-trivial expense, the total dispatch budget is pretty small compared to an airline's bottom line. A major could double the pay rates of everyone in dispatch and it wouldn't materially affect their financial results - this is definitely not the case with pretty much any other work group who have thousands of members in each union.

So, I think it was a combination of many factors - pressure to merge employee groups (as you previously mentioned), the fact that majors are now profitable after many years of struggling and thus couldn't keep saying they were unable to afford to pay more, etc. I hope that regional salaries also start to trend upward as contracts are renewed - they have gone up since I started in the industry (at the princely sum of $9.60 an hour) but they haven't really done much more than keep up with the rate of inflation.

If dispatch costs didnt matter that much to the overall bottom line, why have both WN and AA had issues getting new hire classes approved? Both largely due to budget issues. If it was just a small cost it should be simple to hire 10-20 at bottom of scale rates.

When one group gets a pay raise, another gets one thats more than the others. Management doesnt have to do that if they dont want. They can drag out negotiations as much as possible to get the best possible deal. But it looks bad if they are being cheapskates especially when the money is coming in. Ive heard CEOs and other management at a few airlines say it was a point of pride that they could offer dispatchers these wages. Being able to pay more than the competition is an outward sign of the health of the airline.

With costs now rising and profits lower than they have been, I dont think any of the big four dispatch groups will get significant pay raises in the coming years unless it turns around again and the yields and profits consistently are what they were two to three years ago.

 

[DxDD]

If dispatch costs didnt matter that much to the overall bottom line, why have both WN and AA had issues getting new hire classes approved? Both largely due to budget issues. If it was just a small cost it should be simple to hire 10-20 at bottom of scale rates.

When one group gets a pay raise, another gets one thats more than the others. Management doesnt have to do that if they dont want. They can drag out negotiations as much as possible to get the best possible deal. But it looks bad if they are being cheapskates especially when the money is coming in. Ive heard CEOs and other management at a few airlines say it was a point of pride that they could offer dispatchers these wages. Being able to pay more than the competition is an outward sign of the health of the airline.

With costs now rising and profits lower than they have been, I dont think any of the big four dispatch groups will get significant pay raises in the coming years unless it turns around again and the yields and profits consistently are what they were two to three years ago.

It’s hard to go through the hiring process here. Not sure about SWA, but I can talk about large companies like AA. Hiring goes through HR approval which can only approve 1 for 1 replacements, so a position has to be vacant before they can fill it in. They can’t approve hiring based on projected retirement and promotions... and if it’s a department getting extended than that goes through board voting and future budget approvals which take more then one fiscal year.
Point is, the HR is not looking at the bottom line when they prevent AA to hire 10-20 dispatchers, most cases they don’t even look at the salaries, all they see is how many positions that department has is allowed to have and how many are currently open.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

It’s hard to go through the hiring process here. Not sure about SWA, but I can talk about large companies like AA. Hiring goes through HR approval which can only approve 1 for 1 replacements, so a position has to be vacant before they can fill it in. They can’t approve hiring based on projected retirement and promotions... and if it’s a department getting extended than that goes through board voting and future budget approvals which take more then one fiscal year.
Point is, the HR is not looking at the bottom line when they prevent AA to hire 10-20 dispatchers, most cases they don’t even look at the salaries, all they see is how many positions that department has is allowed to have and how many are currently open.

The point remains though that even though dispatch is a small group, it is not immune to the same financial pressures as other groups. If other groups see dispatchers getting more than they are, they will be wanting the same kind of treatment. I dont think the small size of the dispatch group is why we get paid like we do. I think it is the type of work we do. It is a union job at most carriers but the decisions we make our more like what you would expect people in a high up management position would be making.

 

[speedstick]

i think several people pretty much summarized regional pay issues. To answer the original posters questions it has a lot to do with supply and demand. There isnt a lot of demand for flight dispatchers, that's why there are 500 applicants for every 10 dispatch positions and the sad part is that is thought of as a high hiring rate. Trust me if there were a lack of regional dispatchers pay would go up.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

i think several people pretty much summarized regional pay issues. To answer the original posters questions it has a lot to do with supply and demand. There isnt a lot of demand for flight dispatchers, that's why there are 500 applicants for every 10 dispatch positions and the sad part is that is thought of as a high hiring rate. Trust me if there were a lack of regional dispatchers pay would go up.

If the regional dispatchers were smart and it isnt in there already, they should push for a “me too” clause in their contracts. Regional pilots keep getting wage increases. A “me too” clause would give them a raise by whatever percentage the pilots got. Regional pilots are likely to be seeing their pay keep increasing as retirements pick up at the majors.

 

[FXMXC]

The point remains though that even though dispatch is a small group, it is not immune to the same financial pressures as other groups. If other groups see dispatchers getting more than they are, they will be wanting the same kind of treatment. I dont think the small size of the dispatch group is why we get paid like we do. I think it is the type of work we do. It is a union job at most carriers but the decisions we make our more like what you would expect people in a high up management position would be making.

That is true you are not immune to financial pressures but your group does not have the impact financially that the other groups do not by a long shot. A group of 200+ is not like several thousand. You don't hit the bottom line like other groups do and that is to your advantage and yes the work the you do is also correct you guys have a nice advantage like I said I haven't known of a DX group going on strike in the 32 years I have been in this industry anyway. I think you all should kiss the ground that you all make the top money you do with a certificate that takes 200 hrs to obtain when every other airman certificate takes far more in time and money to get I know my A@P was around 1900 hrs and you guys make far more than us A@P's do plus you have CASS which we don't have so don't bitch so much about your pay or bennies. Our starting pay is the same starting out at a regional airline as yours is. Don't take this wrong I am wishing I made a better decision and went the DX route I tell everyone your career is a hidden gem. Wish I had known earlier in my career but good on you. Like I always said you are only worth what you can negotiate that goes for all groups.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

That is true you are not immune to financial pressures but your group does not have the impact financially that the other groups do not by a long shot. A group of 200+ is not like several thousand. You don't hit the bottom line like other groups do and that is to your advantage and yes the work the you do is also correct you guys have a nice advantage like I said I haven't known of a DX group going on strike in the 32 years I have been in this industry anyway. I think you all should kiss the ground that you all make the top money you do with a certificate that takes 200 hrs to obtain when every other airman certificate takes far more in time and money to get I know my A@P was around 1900 hrs and you guys make far more than us A@P's do plus you have CASS which we do not so don't bitch so much about your pay or bennies. Our starting pay is the same starting out at a regional airline as yours is. Don't take this wrong I am wishing I made a better decision and went the DX route I tell everyone your career is a hidden gem. Wish I had known earlier in my career but good on you. Like I always said you are only worth what you can negotiate that goes for all groups.

If the size of the work group matters for pay than the pilots shouldn't be the highest paid work group at an airline who continue to get pay raises outside of contract negotiations. They make more than most VPs at an airline. At a major airline, pilots number around 15,000. Yet airlines keep offering them pay raises. AA just recently voluntarily raised pilot pay to keep them happy. Given the hit to the bottom line, you would think they wouldn't do that.

 

[pljenkins]

Regionals get contracts based on cost to operate/prior performance. They have to bid low to win contracts. They need cheap overhead to keep costs low.

This right here should have been the end of the thread. Nailed it. Simple economics, Hoss. It's also the reason why regionals are considered "entry level", though that term is somewhat a misnomer since an argument can be made that dispatching at a regional can be some of the most challenging work you'll do in this industry, both from a dispatching standpoint and a dealing with management pressure standpoint. In the airline industry, regionals are considered "entry level" simply because at the pay they offer they tend to lose employees to higher paying major airlines and can attract only those entering the field.

 

[pljenkins]

Certainly, but it helps. The issue arose up-thread when dispatchers were equated to fry cooks in their qualifications. Being a well-rounded candidate is the way to go. A four year degree, a network, and good recommendations go a long way.

They certainly can't hurt, but they aren't the end-all/be-all of moving up. You can have some but not all elements of that recipe and still end up where you want. It's not a matter of having a full toolbox, but rather being skillful and adept at using the tools you have.