Jimflyfast
lurker first class
Seattle sucks, its cold, it rains all the time, the trips suck, etc etc etc. Dont even consider it!
Jim
SEA A330
Jim
SEA A330
Commuting: Lost the Edge?
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
I'll offer the same input as I gave another friend recently: Do whatever makes the squeezing feeling in your chest go away. If you figure out later that you would rather do something else, you can. The rest is just details.
embraer07
Well-Known Member
Have you thought about living near one of those cities but not necessarily in them? I know plenty of really nice areas around NYC for example that are far from Manhattan style costs of living. It doesn't have to be Jersey either, although there are really nice areas there too. Connecticut is nice. What about the areas around L.A.? Even if you had to drive up to 2 or 3 hours to the airport once a week it would be better than having to leave a day before and MUCH better than having to get a crash pad. Once your radius expands to include cities within a 2 hour driving range maybe more options appear...such as Chicago for DTW and even Wisconsin.
As for Seattle, I have lived there and loved it. In fact it is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. and would gladly move back. Like you said, it is expensive but much less expensive than NYC, SFO, BOS, LA, etc... Plus it is cloudy much more than rainy there...but then again that is relative. I don't mind the rain...but living in the desert all these years you would see things differently! Either way the air temperature is pretty mild...Seattle only sees a few snow storms a year and hardly any heat waves. The beautiful scenery and endless outdoor activities in and around Seattle can't be matched anywhere. I would consider it.....
Whatever you do....don't lose your edge and turn in your wings
As for Seattle, I have lived there and loved it. In fact it is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. and would gladly move back. Like you said, it is expensive but much less expensive than NYC, SFO, BOS, LA, etc... Plus it is cloudy much more than rainy there...but then again that is relative. I don't mind the rain...but living in the desert all these years you would see things differently! Either way the air temperature is pretty mild...Seattle only sees a few snow storms a year and hardly any heat waves. The beautiful scenery and endless outdoor activities in and around Seattle can't be matched anywhere. I would consider it.....
Whatever you do....don't lose your edge and turn in your wings
Eagle421flyer
Well-Known Member
Commuting out of ABQ sucks...there are only 3 direct flights a day to ORD...used to be more a few years ago...I always end up going in the day before which also sucks because I burn one of my few days off commuting because of course the last flight out of here to ORD is at something like 1:15pm....The wife and I toss up moving back to IAH or up to ORD but we couldn't sell our house here right now. So for now were just going to sit tight and wait...Can't give you much advice on what to do but know that others are in the same boat.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Doug -
Thanks for reminding us wanna-bes that it's not all rainbows and flowers at the majors even after you've had the "golden ticket" job for quite some time.
That being said, of all the advice I've been given as a military guy hoping to transition into the majors in the next few years, the one that has been consistently pounded into my brain:
"Live in your base."
Thanks for reminding us wanna-bes that it's not all rainbows and flowers at the majors even after you've had the "golden ticket" job for quite some time.
That being said, of all the advice I've been given as a military guy hoping to transition into the majors in the next few years, the one that has been consistently pounded into my brain:
"Live in your base."
staplegun
Well-Known Member
Welcome to my world!!!!
That was my "plan" too until reality intruded...
I was the "pivot point" for several years as those senior to me got more senior and those junior to me got more junior while I stayed (relatively) the same.
See above. :laff:
I was perfectly happy being a 12-year international F/O until I wasn't...
Sometimes it's just time to upgrade...
So far, the MD-88/90 in MSP is great. I'm flying mostly 90 trips. The first line on my PBS bid is "Avoid landings in ATL, LGA, JFK, EWR," and it's working for me...
I never thought I would go back to domestic flying, but it's not bad when you're King...
"Give yourself to the Dark Side."
Kevin
When I read this something I once read on another site immediately came to mind:
My vote: ATL or MSP. Reasonable costs of living and it seems you could live in base in either one, or make your commute a lot easier than PHX. Plus, I'm pretty sure neither of those two bases will ever go away.
And Taylor, I'd love to have your problems. Just sayin'.....
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The way I see things, you've got a few levels of flipping out that you could go through, all depending on your level of frustration.
You could, first, completely lose your mind, move to Romulus, MI to reduce your commute, upgrade on the DC-9 and meet me at the local grab and go on the short BIS overnight for hotdogs and Steel Reserve. This, is probably one of the worst ideas you could possibly have; avoid it at all costs.
You could, second, lose your mind a little less, upgrade into the mad dog or Nineosaur, commute to where ever (DTW? MSP?) and stay where you are. Be the captain, make the decisions, have a not fantastic schedule.
You could, third, lose your mind even a little less and upgrade while moving CLOSER to your commute, say Chicago like Matt suggested, or someplace like that.
You could, forth, probably make a fairly rational decision to stay in your same aircraft, switch categories to domestic 757 and work out of SLC or LAX. This allows you to stay put, not have to go to training, and see things a little differently. This is likely a good option.
You could, fifth, go home, crack open a few beers and stay put. This is not likely a very good option.
As far as the commute goes, I understand hitting a wall. It only took about a year of commuting from SLC-EWR with 2 offline flights a day to short call reserve to just about lose my mind. I was killing myself doing that, and maybe getting furloughed was the best thing that happened to me.
Because then we moved back home, and when I came back online I had CLE at a 2.5 hour drive away from me, and ORD at a 45 minute flight away from me, and while it's almost always offline, there are 25 flights a day. Cake, though I will admit there are A LOT of commuters and I ended up Doug Tayloring somebody last night that works at my company. We were jumpseating offline, I got to the jumpseat first, it filled up, I sat up front, he went to the hotel. It could be me next week, and he said it's the first time in 9 months that he's been left at the gate and not gotten home.
The difference between commuting across the country with limited flight options and doing an easy commute that is drivable if things REALLY hit the fan (4 hours) is like night and day. The schedules could always be better, but for reals, it changes your life man.
So you know what I'd do? I would quite literally visit every single hub that your company has a base in. You know people in every single base that you and Kristie could come and stay with, be shown the town by, and probably drink too many beers with. We'd love to have you guys over, and Ann Arbor is about 20 minutes away from DTW, and it's not Detroit. It's a college town, much like any other Madison or Austin. The weather sucks in the winter, but I'll tell you what the people here make this place one of the best places in the world to live. I'm sure that white Doug would be happy to have you guys for a weekend up in CMA, JEP in MSP...ah...Joe and Asher moved out of SLC, but you probably know somebody there (MOVE TO PARK CITY, DUDE!!!), Denny/Josh/Joe/everybody at your company in the ATL, Keith knows New York, who knows in Seattle and AVOID MEMPHIS AND CINCY! They're both going to close as far as I see things going.
I think your safe bets are DTW, NYC, ATL, MSP and maybe SLC, with SLC being the most shaky of those. If you move to DTW, it won't go anywhere, it's turning into the Atlanta of the north.
And finally, I'll echo Mark; be careful about moving for an airline, we opened and closed 3 bases within 18 months, and it's always possible that it could happen at your shop too.
You could, first, completely lose your mind, move to Romulus, MI to reduce your commute, upgrade on the DC-9 and meet me at the local grab and go on the short BIS overnight for hotdogs and Steel Reserve. This, is probably one of the worst ideas you could possibly have; avoid it at all costs.
You could, second, lose your mind a little less, upgrade into the mad dog or Nineosaur, commute to where ever (DTW? MSP?) and stay where you are. Be the captain, make the decisions, have a not fantastic schedule.
You could, third, lose your mind even a little less and upgrade while moving CLOSER to your commute, say Chicago like Matt suggested, or someplace like that.
You could, forth, probably make a fairly rational decision to stay in your same aircraft, switch categories to domestic 757 and work out of SLC or LAX. This allows you to stay put, not have to go to training, and see things a little differently. This is likely a good option.
You could, fifth, go home, crack open a few beers and stay put. This is not likely a very good option.
As far as the commute goes, I understand hitting a wall. It only took about a year of commuting from SLC-EWR with 2 offline flights a day to short call reserve to just about lose my mind. I was killing myself doing that, and maybe getting furloughed was the best thing that happened to me.
Because then we moved back home, and when I came back online I had CLE at a 2.5 hour drive away from me, and ORD at a 45 minute flight away from me, and while it's almost always offline, there are 25 flights a day. Cake, though I will admit there are A LOT of commuters and I ended up Doug Tayloring somebody last night that works at my company. We were jumpseating offline, I got to the jumpseat first, it filled up, I sat up front, he went to the hotel. It could be me next week, and he said it's the first time in 9 months that he's been left at the gate and not gotten home.
The difference between commuting across the country with limited flight options and doing an easy commute that is drivable if things REALLY hit the fan (4 hours) is like night and day. The schedules could always be better, but for reals, it changes your life man.
So you know what I'd do? I would quite literally visit every single hub that your company has a base in. You know people in every single base that you and Kristie could come and stay with, be shown the town by, and probably drink too many beers with. We'd love to have you guys over, and Ann Arbor is about 20 minutes away from DTW, and it's not Detroit. It's a college town, much like any other Madison or Austin. The weather sucks in the winter, but I'll tell you what the people here make this place one of the best places in the world to live. I'm sure that white Doug would be happy to have you guys for a weekend up in CMA, JEP in MSP...ah...Joe and Asher moved out of SLC, but you probably know somebody there (MOVE TO PARK CITY, DUDE!!!), Denny/Josh/Joe/everybody at your company in the ATL, Keith knows New York, who knows in Seattle and AVOID MEMPHIS AND CINCY! They're both going to close as far as I see things going.
I think your safe bets are DTW, NYC, ATL, MSP and maybe SLC, with SLC being the most shaky of those. If you move to DTW, it won't go anywhere, it's turning into the Atlanta of the north.
And finally, I'll echo Mark; be careful about moving for an airline, we opened and closed 3 bases within 18 months, and it's always possible that it could happen at your shop too.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Probably more often than not.....
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
My .02
As much as I'd love slinging gear for and drinking beer with Captain Taylor (you know the ones the CA buys on the overnight!
), I'd say upgrading on the 9 is a bad idea. Not because of the schedules or the airplane which is a blast, but for the fact alone that it's a dying category. Who knows what it's going to look like in 12-18 months if it even lasts that long. It might be tolerable for a guy who lives in base but for a commuter it could provide for a worse situation than you are already in. The trips are pretty commutable now out of DTW but that is now not tomorrow as it is being parked. 
I'm new to the commute thing and I'm also on reserve so my situation is different than yours. I do not feel that our long call system is commutable. Some guys do the back and forth thing for a stretch of reserve days but if you are a cautious commuter like I am it's really not feasible so I would avoid it if the same applies to you. When my commute has gotten tight (which is rare because I view DTW as extremely commuter friendly) the added time I gain is virtually a complete waste since the stress pretty much ruins it for me and even more for my wife who I'm probably driving crazy. The reserve system rocks if you live in base.
So, my wife and I are moving to base. I bid the Airbus and go to training in a few months. We offered on a house, today in fact. The only downside I can think of is that I will have to call jtrain "neighbor." Having lived in base for 7 years and enjoyed "the life," my wife and I are willing roll the dice and see how it plays out. Her job is transferable, we own no property to sell, we have no family here in the northeast, and can't afford to buy anything here anyway so why stay? DTW is junior and I feel pretty confident it will stay that way. If it doesn't I can live with that.
It seems shortening your commute might make life easier...maybe. Whether that's moving somewhere like ORD as was suggested or base transferring on the ER to LAX is a decision you have to make for yourself and Kristie. It all depends on how much you guys want to stay in AZ I guess. I will say I had a guy on the js from ORD to DTW the other day who was moving to MI like me because he had DEFINITELY hit a wall...senior 320B guy too. I would love nothing more than to live in VA but it's not in the cards. The commute would stink and that pretty much determines that as far as I'm concerned. I agree with those who say never move for an airline but only to a certain degree. Some of us are more married to one location than others, just as some are more willing to move than others. It's a personal choice and I'll never fault anyone for the decisions they make because we all have to do what is best for our families. That answer is different for everyone.
Like you I have no desire to live in ATL. I don't really like the city, the weather (I'm a 4 seasons guy), or the airport....plus some personal reasons that I'm happy to discuss with anyone here just not on the internet. MSP would worry me a bit to...awesome city with fantastic people but my hunch is that one day your flying options there will be limited...just a hunch with little credibility. DTW has some great variety plus it seems no one wants to move here so it stays relatively junior. CVG...dying. MEM...dying plus all the other things you've mentioned. SLC...I know nothing to offer any opinion! SEA...same as SLC for me so I'll stay mum. NYC...it can be doable if you think outside the box a bit. I love living here and to be honest we would stay if it were more affordable.
If I were in your shoes I might bid to take a bit of a pay cut for some quality of life but that's me...once again personal decision. I know too many guys that have bid a good FO slot for a reserve CA slot at the expense of QOL who have lived to regret it.
Sorry you're hitting the wall Doug, best of luck. If I know you and Kristie, I bet you'll make a fun life wherever you settle.
As much as I'd love slinging gear for and drinking beer with Captain Taylor (you know the ones the CA buys on the overnight!
), I'd say upgrading on the 9 is a bad idea. Not because of the schedules or the airplane which is a blast, but for the fact alone that it's a dying category. Who knows what it's going to look like in 12-18 months if it even lasts that long. It might be tolerable for a guy who lives in base but for a commuter it could provide for a worse situation than you are already in. The trips are pretty commutable now out of DTW but that is now not tomorrow as it is being parked. I'm new to the commute thing and I'm also on reserve so my situation is different than yours. I do not feel that our long call system is commutable. Some guys do the back and forth thing for a stretch of reserve days but if you are a cautious commuter like I am it's really not feasible so I would avoid it if the same applies to you. When my commute has gotten tight (which is rare because I view DTW as extremely commuter friendly) the added time I gain is virtually a complete waste since the stress pretty much ruins it for me and even more for my wife who I'm probably driving crazy. The reserve system rocks if you live in base.
So, my wife and I are moving to base. I bid the Airbus and go to training in a few months. We offered on a house, today in fact. The only downside I can think of is that I will have to call jtrain "neighbor."
Having lived in base for 7 years and enjoyed "the life," my wife and I are willing roll the dice and see how it plays out. Her job is transferable, we own no property to sell, we have no family here in the northeast, and can't afford to buy anything here anyway so why stay? DTW is junior and I feel pretty confident it will stay that way. If it doesn't I can live with that.It seems shortening your commute might make life easier...maybe. Whether that's moving somewhere like ORD as was suggested or base transferring on the ER to LAX is a decision you have to make for yourself and Kristie. It all depends on how much you guys want to stay in AZ I guess. I will say I had a guy on the js from ORD to DTW the other day who was moving to MI like me because he had DEFINITELY hit a wall...senior 320B guy too. I would love nothing more than to live in VA but it's not in the cards. The commute would stink and that pretty much determines that as far as I'm concerned. I agree with those who say never move for an airline but only to a certain degree. Some of us are more married to one location than others, just as some are more willing to move than others. It's a personal choice and I'll never fault anyone for the decisions they make because we all have to do what is best for our families. That answer is different for everyone.
Like you I have no desire to live in ATL. I don't really like the city, the weather (I'm a 4 seasons guy), or the airport....plus some personal reasons that I'm happy to discuss with anyone here just not on the internet. MSP would worry me a bit to...awesome city with fantastic people but my hunch is that one day your flying options there will be limited...just a hunch with little credibility. DTW has some great variety plus it seems no one wants to move here so it stays relatively junior. CVG...dying. MEM...dying plus all the other things you've mentioned. SLC...I know nothing to offer any opinion! SEA...same as SLC for me so I'll stay mum. NYC...it can be doable if you think outside the box a bit. I love living here and to be honest we would stay if it were more affordable.
If I were in your shoes I might bid to take a bit of a pay cut for some quality of life but that's me...once again personal decision. I know too many guys that have bid a good FO slot for a reserve CA slot at the expense of QOL who have lived to regret it.
Sorry you're hitting the wall Doug, best of luck. If I know you and Kristie, I bet you'll make a fun life wherever you settle.
Nick
Well-Known Member
KDTW: A-320, B-757/767, A-330, B-747-400, B-777
I can vouch for this too.
Where you guys stay in Livonia is not a good representation of what can be had in the region.
If you were to choose DTW and a radius of #:## length drive to work, you'd have basically two options:
1) Get a house, as large as you want, with a nice size property somewhere more than 30 minutes drive from the airport. You could buy a veritable castle in this area after selling a home of almost any size in Scottsdale. If you're curious about this type of arrangement, locate Ortonville, MI on a map. Two cousins of mine moved there after selling their house in Melbourne, Australia for $400K+ and they've got a decent sized house, 20 acres, a pond, etc. and a decent sized lake nearby probably for half the value of their house in Oz. Sure, you'd have a heating bill if you really did buy a castle but you could find something that's just the right size and it wouldn't be too out of control.
2) Live in the Ann Arbor area. As far as actual towns in the Detroit metro area go I think it is the best by far. For people into living in a place with some character and not just a bunch of generic BestBuy/Target/PetCo/Subway/WalMart/etc. it is great. There is a plethora of real non-chain restaurants and microbrews, a nice bi-weekly farmers market in the warmer half of the year, plenty of sporting events if you like that (I'm five blocks from the Big House and it's a good time...114,000 people at a football game is quite impressive). Living downtown here is quite nice; I come home to my days off and my car doesn't move other than grocery store runs and things like that. If you like being near an Apple store, it's a mile away. Property values in college towns are somewhat insulated from real estate fluctuations nationwide as there is always demand with 40,000 students wanting a place to rent.
I don't like snow or cold weather much either. I'd really like to live in Arizona, but I can't imagine that commute sometimes. I've only commuted for a total of less than one year in my career thus far but even that was enough to make me appreciate a drive to work. Speaking of drives to work, the Detroit Metro area has highways that will GET you there NOW. I go from practically on campus out the driveway to being on cruise control at 80MPH in about five minutes on a bad day, and 20 minutes after that I turn off cruise control and I'm in the employee parking lot. The only view I have of Eight Mile Road and that whole area is from on final to 22R/21L
.
It is fantastic leaving my bedroom 60 minutes prior to report time even at rush hour.
Detroit itself does have some things also worth checking out too though, as I've done on days off and days sitting reserve. If you like Middle Eastern food, this area is the largest middle eastern population in the USA and there are lots of great places to eat.
So, envisioning myself in the same predicament (if you want to call it that), personally I'd cross off CVG and MEM and NYC way before anywhere else. I think it would come down to DTW and ATL for me.
I can vouch for this too.
Where you guys stay in Livonia is not a good representation of what can be had in the region.
If you were to choose DTW and a radius of #:## length drive to work, you'd have basically two options:
1) Get a house, as large as you want, with a nice size property somewhere more than 30 minutes drive from the airport. You could buy a veritable castle in this area after selling a home of almost any size in Scottsdale. If you're curious about this type of arrangement, locate Ortonville, MI on a map. Two cousins of mine moved there after selling their house in Melbourne, Australia for $400K+ and they've got a decent sized house, 20 acres, a pond, etc. and a decent sized lake nearby probably for half the value of their house in Oz. Sure, you'd have a heating bill if you really did buy a castle but you could find something that's just the right size and it wouldn't be too out of control.
2) Live in the Ann Arbor area. As far as actual towns in the Detroit metro area go I think it is the best by far. For people into living in a place with some character and not just a bunch of generic BestBuy/Target/PetCo/Subway/WalMart/etc. it is great. There is a plethora of real non-chain restaurants and microbrews, a nice bi-weekly farmers market in the warmer half of the year, plenty of sporting events if you like that (I'm five blocks from the Big House and it's a good time...114,000 people at a football game is quite impressive). Living downtown here is quite nice; I come home to my days off and my car doesn't move other than grocery store runs and things like that. If you like being near an Apple store, it's a mile away. Property values in college towns are somewhat insulated from real estate fluctuations nationwide as there is always demand with 40,000 students wanting a place to rent.
I don't like snow or cold weather much either. I'd really like to live in Arizona, but I can't imagine that commute sometimes. I've only commuted for a total of less than one year in my career thus far but even that was enough to make me appreciate a drive to work. Speaking of drives to work, the Detroit Metro area has highways that will GET you there NOW. I go from practically on campus out the driveway to being on cruise control at 80MPH in about five minutes on a bad day, and 20 minutes after that I turn off cruise control and I'm in the employee parking lot. The only view I have of Eight Mile Road and that whole area is from on final to 22R/21L
. It is fantastic leaving my bedroom 60 minutes prior to report time even at rush hour.
Detroit itself does have some things also worth checking out too though, as I've done on days off and days sitting reserve. If you like Middle Eastern food, this area is the largest middle eastern population in the USA and there are lots of great places to eat.
So, envisioning myself in the same predicament (if you want to call it that), personally I'd cross off CVG and MEM and NYC way before anywhere else. I think it would come down to DTW and ATL for me.
Cav
Former Maddog Whisperer
Ann Arbor
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Ha, wanna talk about "career stagnation," look no further than some of us slogging it out at the regionals. I appreciate that your plans got crushed by the new retirement and merger.....but, at least you've been stagnated at a legacy. No worries Taylor, I'm not trying to rain on your parade (I would seriously dislike your commute); but sadly, there's a ton of us dying to stagnate where you are. Just sayin'!
As for the commute, I think I would do whatever I could to ease my commuting worries, while continuing on the INTL flying. Can't see how returning to domestic would ever be a good compromise, if you truly enjoy the international flying/ lifestyle. Let's see, INTL = good schedules, good equipment, good overnights/ days vs. return to DOM = not-so-hot schedules, shorter overnights, increased work for decreased pay. Hmmm, international it is.... Good luck in your decision!
