Commuting: Lost the Edge?

[derg]

Ok, not one much to aire my dirty laundry on the internet... much... but I'm having a dilemma and wondering if anyone else has gone thru the is.

I'm losing the "commuter's edge" somewhat.

I've enjoyed the luxury of living where I want and just commuting to where my seniority and the flying was the best. MCO to ATL. PHX to DFW. PHX to ATL. PHX to SLC. PHX to NYC.

And I've done some pretty idiotic stuff like 30 minute connections in hub cities to arrive minutes before check-in time. Riding offline without checking loads and all other sorts of interesting stuff to get to work with minimum time on the ground.

Partially from the "Passenger Bill of Rights" where some airlines will cancel an entire day's worth of flying, to having an incident where I had an unexpected cancellation, was barely albe to make a backup flight and ended up arriving AT THE JET 5 minutes prior to push back, if it's even close I'll just leave a day ahead of time just to not have to deal with the stress of spending from 5 to 8 hours of flying and connecting wondering if I'm going to end up in the chief pilot's office because I failed to get to work on time.

Today I'm going to work a day early because the redeye kicks my ass and I don't have any online options the day of my trip without a tight connection and sliding into the pilot lounge 30 minutes, at best, before check-in.

It's honestly only been about four or five times for various weather or schedule-related reasons, but it's causing some occupational stress from effectively losing days off, the guilt of leaving the bride a day early and just another added stressor to an already stress-inducing profession.

LAX would be the easiest commute, but I would take a pay cut and end up working more days to make the same amount of money. Flying more domestic means less per diem, having to abide by 30-in-7 rules (non-augmented flying) and I'd be on the road a lot more by far.

Bidding to captain to fly deep reserve on the MD-88 means less days off, a small pay increase but then I'd go from 85-ish hours of 767 pay to 70 hours of MD-88 pay and increasing commuting costs by having 14 or 15 days sittign in a hotel or a crash pad.

I'd hold a line on the DC-9, but again, in MEM and the pay differential is negligible and I'd go back to my old Skyway Airlines schedule with six leg days, short overnights and waking up in the morning fantasizing about winning the lottery, turning off the alarm clock and doing like Peter from "Office Space". Yeah, not coming in today. Or maybe even tomorrow....


Moving up to larger equipment means lower seniority, better pay rates, but less seniority which might negate any pay increases.

And my options are just biting the bullet and moving to:

LAX: Expensive
SEA: Pricey, rainy!
SLC: Coooooold
MEM: Erm, no.
DTW: Cold, and some of the outlying areas reminds me of "The Road"
MSP: Cold, but have friends that live there
ATL: I'm too mouthy and it's too close to HQ
NYC: Good one! Ha! On an airline pilot's wages?
CVG: Blue Oyster Cult wrote a song about fearing the reaper...

I mean I like Arizona, I'm not necessarily in love with it, but sadly my maximum opportunity for schedule control, cash and seniority involves an almost 3,000 mile transcon commute.

So. Anyone else hit the "Commuter's Brick Wall"?

 

[BeRich]

Stupid non-airline pilot question here....If you wait and decide to stay a FO for a while even though you could hold CA somewhere, do you stay ahead over someone a few numbers below you that took upgrade at his/her first chance? So it would technically be possible, if you waited long enough to go from your spot now to whale CA?

 

[derg]

Well, if I bid DC-9 captain it's no secret they're being replaced by CRJ's so I'd eventually get displaced.

I'd be deep reserve on the MD-88 and when the DC-9 categories pare down, there's going to be an onslaught on the other narrow body categories so I'd get displaced back to FO anyway.

Aren't mergers just FANTASTIC?

A few years ago the plan was to keep my fat butt in the 767 FO seat and slide over to 767 Captain because I was very close to being able to bid ER captain.

Then someone's chocolate got in someone else's peanut butter, or was it someone's peanut butter got on their chocolate and well, the electric backslide ensued.

I think the game plan of sitting right seat in the ER and sliding over in a reasonable period of time is slim to nil for the foreseeable future. Pretty much my only options in the next five or so years, I think, are DC-9 and MD-88 and without massive aircraft orders and fleet increases, it's just not an option.

*clicking heels, wishing 2007 was back again*

 

[BeRich]

But mmmm, Reese's cups are good.

 

[OldTownPilot]

Stupid non-airline pilot question here....If you wait and decide to stay a FO for a while even though you could hold CA somewhere, do you stay ahead over someone a few numbers below you that took upgrade at his/her first chance? So it would technically be possible, if you waited long enough to go from your spot now to whale CA?

yes.



Pops hit that wall around when he upgraded, he usually rides into LGA and takes a bus to EWR the afternoon/evening before a europe trip. The leave at 6am and take a bus to EWR across manhattan at rush hour was wearing away at him hard, but he'll do it every once in a while. He also does a LOT less augmented flying than you do. Mind you this is a 400 mile commute, rather than 2000. BGR-EWR has to be one of the worst commutes in the biz. your options are one of 4 LGA flights and a bus, connect in PHL (or take a train from there) or connect in DTW (which he has done to get home before), or drive to PWM and deal with all the other commuters out of there (ask a Q pilot how ofetn there is a guy sitting in the jump seat out of there).

Did Kristie find a job in PHX, are you tied there? I think you'd like MSP, and come on man its not THAT cold ALL the time. Don't be a girly man. MSP DC9A has your name all over it. You know you want to fly a real airplane dontcha?

 

[derg]

But it's going to suck giving up one leg, 24-48 hour layover in Europe to go back to, more or less regional flying for not a lot more money and a lot more responsibility.

It is SO nice coming to an aircraft, mostly free of MEL's, ETOPS-ready and having a nap, two meals and not having to yammer on the radio every 120 seconds changing frequencies and reporting "Southernjets forty-one ninah-three got dat traffic on da fish finder" every five minutes.

 

[Malko]

yes.



Did Kristie find a job in PHX, are you tied there? I think you'd like MSP, and come on man its not THAT cold ALL the time. Don't be a girly man. MSP DC9A has your name all over it. You know you want to fly a real airplane dontcha?

But it's going to suck giving up one leg, 24-48 hour layover in Europe to go back to, more or less regional flying for not a lot more money and a lot more responsibility.

It is SO nice coming to an aircraft, mostly free of MEL's, ETOPS-ready and having a nap, two meals and not having to yammer on the radio every 120 seconds changing frequencies and reporting "Southernjets forty-one ninah-three got dat traffic on da fish finder" every five minutes.

Doood, come on out to MSP, Great weather, Great people, and great communities......Did I mention great people....? Dinner's on me when you make the move. I'd have to check the JC by-laws though. Can you have more than 2 moderators in the same city?

 

[bLizZuE]

I'm kind of in the same spot, albeit slightly different plot line.

I'm at a point in my life where I have nothing keeping me anywhere. I could pretty much move anywhere and it would be as indifferent as anywhere else. How do you choose though? I can't possibly afford to live anywhere considering our hubs of ORD, NYC, LAX, MIA. I tried to live in DFW but I couldn't afford the rent on first year pay. So how do you pick a city to commute from? I would love to live at some outstation that has a few flights a day to the hub, around 1-2 hours of flying. Yet I get nervous that, at the drop of a hat, they could stop flying to said outstation. Then what?

If I were in your situation Doug I would probably move closer to the commute, but still commute. I also don't think you should jump ship from your ER just yet. I feel like we're about to see and feel lots of changes in the industry over the next two years, and you have worked so hard and waited so long if you jump ship now you might regret it. I think with all the retirements and hiring happening(pray fuel doesn't destroy this fantasy) there will hopefully be movement for everyone.

My generally worthless, .02.

 

[nc1982]

But it's going to suck giving up one leg, 24-48 hour layover in Europe to go back to, more or less regional flying for not a lot more money and a lot more responsibility.

It is SO nice coming to an aircraft, mostly free of MEL's, ETOPS-ready and having a nap, two meals and not having to yammer on the radio every 120 seconds changing frequencies and reporting "Southernjets forty-one ninah-three got dat traffic on da fish finder" every five minutes.

While I wouldn't wish a transcon commute on my worst enemies, that right there would make me deal with it. After being on the 767, I don't think I would want to go back to a mad dog or diesel 9 to go have an 13 hour layover in Kansas City or Tulsa. Nothing against those cities. How far up on the NYC767 list are you? You think you can hold on and wait until some of these old doods retire?

 

[zmiller4]

Ok, not one much to aire my dirty laundry on the internet... much... but I'm having a dilemma and wondering if anyone else has gone thru the is.

Absolutely. My commute has steadily increased in difficulty over the last year or two. There's more people doing it because a couple of regionals have closed an ATL base that was popular for RDU folks, more RJ's and less mainline flights, and every airline is way quicker to cancel. I had never missed a commute until this fall and winter, and while my company is extremely understanding, I don't like not making it to work.

I've lived in AZ, and I didn't mind it, but there's no way I'd let a desire to live there give me a horrible commute. It's not that nice. Were it me, I'd move somewhere within reasonable driving distance from Atlanta but far enough away that home prices are cheap and you don't have to deal with company political BS. I *would not* move to DTW or MSP. Trust me, Arizona will make you a weather weakling. Upper Midwestern winters will destroy you. I can barely handle 3-4 days a week of it. In ATL people start complaining when it hits 40, and it's been hitting the 70's-80's for a couple of weeks now around the southeast.

So. Anyone else hit the "Commuter's Brick Wall"?

To be honest, I've hit a much bigger wall than just commuting, although the commute sure didn't help.

 

[MQAAord]

It seems like you enjoy the INTL thing. Going back to DOM would probably make you want to chew off your left pinky toe. Schedule-wise, Bill's got a great schedule on the 88 as an F/O in CVG, but it is a paycut from what you have now. When he was commuting to ATL for that year as a super-junior CA (like 3 off the bottom junior) his schedule on RSV sucked massively. Moving to be based in CVG is not advisable, the writing has been on the wall for years.. we're just holding out until it closes. Notice I said until, not if. He's enjoying the 2 hour drive to work while it lasts... Me personally, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to go north (MSP, when CVG finally closes). The drive to the farm would be 3-ish hours again, not 8.

Is the issue money, or commute burnout? If it's money, there are plenty of ways to save $$. If the issue is commute burnout, there's lots more to consider. How much do you like PHX/SDL, can you sell your house, going to MSP would be a bit of climate shock. However the people up there are super and as long as you have a good snowblower it's not so bad.

I'm really hoping that I can convince Bill to go north when the axe falls on CVG.

 

[Malko]

It seems like you enjoy the INTL thing. Going back to DOM would probably make you want to chew off your left pinky toe. Schedule-wise, Bill's got a great schedule on the 88 as an F/O in CVG, but it is a paycut from what you have now. When he was commuting to ATL for that year as a super-junior CA (like 3 off the bottom junior) his schedule on RSV sucked massively. Moving to be based in CVG is not advisable, the writing has been on the wall for years.. we're just holding out until it closes. Notice I said until, not if. He's enjoying the 2 hour drive to work while it lasts... Me personally, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to go north (MSP, when CVG finally closes). The drive to the farm would be 3-ish hours again, not 8.

Is the issue money, or commute burnout? If it's money, there are plenty of ways to save $$. If the issue is commute burnout, there's lots more to consider. How much do you like PHX/SDL, can you sell your house, going to MSP would be a bit of climate shock. However the people up there are super and as long as you have a good snowblower it's not so bad.

I'm really hoping that I can convince Bill to go north when the axe falls on CVG.

Oooh, that'd be 5 mod's within relative distance!!!! Schweeet !!!

 

[E_Dawg]

Can't you do intl flying out of MSP or is there a fence on that? If you move you have to think about what you will do with your property... sell or rent; selling has sucked since about 2008 and renting... well that sucks too!

 

[KLB]

I'm kind of in the same spot, albeit slightly different plot line.

I'm at a point in my life where I have nothing keeping me anywhere. I could pretty much move anywhere and it would be as indifferent as anywhere else. How do you choose though? I can't possibly afford to live anywhere considering our hubs of ORD, NYC, LAX, MIA. I tried to live in DFW but I couldn't afford the rent on first year pay. So how do you pick a city to commute from? I would love to live at some outstation that has a few flights a day to the hub, around 1-2 hours of flying. Yet I get nervous that, at the drop of a hat, they could stop flying to said outstation. Then what?

If I were in your situation Doug I would probably move closer to the commute, but still commute. I also don't think you should jump ship from your ER just yet. I feel like we're about to see and feel lots of changes in the industry over the next two years, and you have worked so hard and waited so long if you jump ship now you might regret it. I think with all the retirements and hiring happening(pray fuel doesn't destroy this fantasy) there will hopefully be movement for everyone.

My generally worthless, .02.

MIA is actually cheaper than I thought. I'm thinking of moving there.

 

[derg]

It seems like you enjoy the INTL thing. Going back to DOM would probably make you want to chew off your left pinky toe. Schedule-wise, Bill's got a great schedule on the 88 as an F/O in CVG, but it is a paycut from what you have now. When he was commuting to ATL for that year as a super-junior CA (like 3 off the bottom junior) his schedule on RSV sucked massively. Moving to be based in CVG is not advisable, the writing has been on the wall for years.. we're just holding out until it closes. Notice I said until, not if. He's enjoying the 2 hour drive to work while it lasts... Me personally, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE to go north (MSP, when CVG finally closes). The drive to the farm would be 3-ish hours again, not 8.

Is the issue money, or commute burnout? If it's money, there are plenty of ways to save $$. If the issue is commute burnout, there's lots more to consider. How much do you like PHX/SDL, can you sell your house, going to MSP would be a bit of climate shock. However the people up there are super and as long as you have a good snowblower it's not so bad.

I'm really hoping that I can convince Bill to go north when the axe falls on CVG.

Well, the cash is one concern. Any move is going to wreck the cash-flow because I have my top earning potential and best seniority in my seat right here.

OMG, there's a dwarf on the airplane, wow! Ok, non-sequitur over.

So it's kind of being at wits-end over commuting because it's slowly becoming more complicated. Going from one evening bank to three banks where certain cities cut out my plan-B commutability. Improving the commute may end up being a pay cut and a worse schedule.

An example, when I was 8 out of 180 on the MD-88/90 (or how many schlubs we had in the category at the time), I had a great schedule.

BUT I was working Monday thru Thursday pretty much continuously until I hit vacation, both ends commutable. That's about the best a brother can do domestic so I'll give up two and three weeks off sometimes for the occasional "Yes! Four day weekennnnnnnnnnnnd!" (in an Oprah voice).

After thinking about it, and especially since the music just stopped for a bit and there ain't nowhere to run anyway, might as well suck it up until some of these old farts start retiring because I doubt we're going to experience any internal growth at all for the next 5 years.

 

[Phuz]

IMO living in base with long-call reserve is the sickest thing on the planet. Whats the short-call, 2hrs?

i'd bid LAX reserve and move to the desert. Maybe PSP on VCV.

 

[derg]

IMO living in base with long-call reserve is the sickest thing on the planet. Whats the short-call, 2hrs?

i'd bid LAX reserve and move to the desert. Maybe PSP on VCV.

Covering LAX, SNA, ONT and BUR would be a real treat. Plus, I've been afraid of that area ever since "Independence Day"!

 

[OldTownPilot]

After thinking about it, and especially since the music just stopped for a bit and there ain't nowhere to run anyway, might as well suck it up until some of these old farts start retiring because I doubt we're going to experience any internal growth at all for the next 5 years.

Exactly what pops is doing. He bid 756 CA on the last bid before 65 went throuh. It wasn't until the bid this January that he got anyone to come into the base junior to him, and thats just on paper. Talk about stagnation.

Of course who knows whats going to happen after the fresh paint stops getting put on.

 

[derg]

Yeah, I got the double whammy. Age 65 was a torpedo to the stern "Careership Taylor" and the merger was a direct hit on the bow, then the parking of the -9's was another volley.

(I'm a brother from Fresno, I don't know nautical phraseology so apologies in advance)

 

[derg]

Well triple whammy I guess.