Commuting: Lost the Edge?

"And I've done some pretty idiotic stuff like 30 minute connections in hub cities to arrive minutes before check-in time."

That's some crazy stuff right there...

Since you are used to the PHX climate, I'd second PSP. It's dirt cheap right now. Two hour drive to LAX. We have a clause in our contract that a late reserve show due to traffic factors is not held against us. I think you are pretty sold on International flying. Couldn't you hold a F/O Intl line in LAX?
 
Very limited LAX category flying, so it's the occasional Asia trip but a whole lot of 11 HR 2 day GUA trips. :(
 
Corona is not that expensive. And the drive to LAX is fine, specially if you live somewhere close to the 91 fwy and west of the 15 fwy. You would avoid a lot of traffic by staying west of the 15. There are some nice neighborhoods just north of KAJO. Housing is not as affordable as Phoenix but way cheaper than LA/OC.

After commuting for so long you would probably enjoy the ability to drive to work, no? :)

Sent from my HTC Glacier
 
I don't know if it's the Starbucks coffee or the original post, but now I have a bad stomach ache.

Now I'm partial to my city... But what about moving here? You'd have a fairly easy one-leg commute to any of the major domiciles, including JFK. UAL, AAL, JBLU. You could easily commute to MSP, DTW, ATL, and even LAX is a four-hour flight like you have now. Being nearly centered in the United States at a major city with two hub airports has it's benefits.

Now, besides that, knowing YOU, this area would have a lot to offer. 8500 restaurants in the city limits alone... Tons of bars, music, nightlife. Easy access to many international airlines going every direction possible to travel. If you decided to live IN the city, in a nice condo, you'd probably be paying what you do now in mortgage.

Plus, Kristie would have a job here waiting if she wanted one. I know for a fact Sarah could hire her, so you'd have some additional income, and she wouldn't get bored while you are away.

Just a thought. I'd try to find something that will make your life easier, but most importantly is find somewhere you'll LOVE. Commuting sucked for me, but I don't regret doing it. Because I love where I live. Think about it from that angle.

Oh, and you guys could drive up to Wisconsin for cheese!!
 
I don't post here often, but this post resonated with me for whatever reason.

I was having a similar dilemma back in 2007. I was a commuter at JetBlue, had been on the line for about 2 months. Hated commuting with a passion, wanted to live in base but could not even come close to supporting a family of 4 on my salary in any of the bases (the wife and I had decided that she was going to stay home with the kiddos).

So NetJets comes along with a job offer and has the much improved basing deal (could basically live where I want and all positioning was on company time). The wife and I discuss it and make the decision to leave JetBlue and head to NetJets. Worked out great for a couple of years, but then Jan 2010 comes along and I am furloughed. Recall is 1 yr away or 10 yrs away depending on who you talk to.

The moral of the story is, in this industry at least, no matter what you do to improve your situation it seems like you still wind up getting screwed.

Doug, I would just hang tight with what you got until Dec 2012 and see what happens when the old farts start retiring. Also it seems like a lot of the fleet restructuring should be done around then.

Just my $.02.
 
Doug, throw in the towel and move to ATL. Stay away from peachtree city and you wont have to have a Delta pilot on each side of you for neighbors. Im moving to the northside of atlanta, about an hour north, and the downtown area of ATL is a far off land. Your money will go a very long way here, probably farther then anywhere else youve listed. ATL, SEA, LAX, SLC, NYC
 
Doug Taylor said:
Ok, not one much to aire my dirty laundry on the internet... much... but I'm having a dilemma and wondering if anyone else has gone thru the is.

I'm losing the "commuter's edge" somewhat.

I've enjoyed the luxury of living where I want and just commuting to where my seniority and the flying was the best. MCO to ATL. PHX to DFW. PHX to ATL. PHX to SLC. PHX to NYC.

And I've done some pretty idiotic stuff like 30 minute connections in hub cities to arrive minutes before check-in time. Riding offline without checking loads and all other sorts of interesting stuff to get to work with minimum time on the ground.

Partially from the "Passenger Bill of Rights" where some airlines will cancel an entire day's worth of flying, to having an incident where I had an unexpected cancellation, was barely albe to make a backup flight and ended up arriving AT THE JET 5 minutes prior to push back, if it's even close I'll just leave a day ahead of time just to not have to deal with the stress of spending from 5 to 8 hours of flying and connecting wondering if I'm going to end up in the chief pilot's office because I failed to get to work on time.

Today I'm going to work a day early because the redeye kicks my ass and I don't have any online options the day of my trip without a tight connection and sliding into the pilot lounge 30 minutes, at best, before check-in.

It's honestly only been about four or five times for various weather or schedule-related reasons, but it's causing some occupational stress from effectively losing days off, the guilt of leaving the bride a day early and just another added stressor to an already stress-inducing profession.

LAX would be the easiest commute, but I would take a pay cut and end up working more days to make the same amount of money. Flying more domestic means less per diem, having to abide by 30-in-7 rules (non-augmented flying) and I'd be on the road a lot more by far.
Click to expand...

...not to mention that Captain Dad and others of equivalent seniority have taken all the good lines out of the 75 category here, anyway... :)

(Considering that most of what he seems to do now is LAX-NYC-LAX with the occasional ATL or south FL thing thrown in, with limited international and Hawaii thrown in for laughs, I wonder why Delta has an LAX base sometimes...but that's just how things are, I suppose. This experience certainly not representative of the entire base, much less the 75/76 category.)

Our family's current situation...Camarillo is right at the edge of the drive-able short call range for LAX (why do you think we live here?) and, for when Southernjets operated the 757 out of there, BUR. SNA is planned as a 3 hour drive, and Ontario is a crap shoot (210 either good or massively bad, mostly bad). Living here is not prohibitively expensive, and there are some real deals on housing to be had, but exercise caution. Where California could go right now is anyone's guess.

My primary instructor is now a SkyWest CRJ FO, based in Denver, and living in Palm Springs with his family. That deserves serious investigation: it is apparently affordable and just well-connected enough that commuting doesn't suck too badly. I don't know what driving into LA would be like though.

I would hang tight where you are, for now. See what happens in 2012 and the retirements resume, if you can tough it out that long.
 
It sounds like you have already answered your own question. I couldn't commute to work, only to have to fly four days to cities that I hated. That upgrade money can only buy so much happiness. Transcon is hard. I used to commute from LA to a colgan outstation every week because the wife was on the left coast bringing home the bacon. LAX has tons of flights to IAD and LGA, but something would go wrong every week and I would wind up with the 2 legger or some odd concoction of legs to get to work. I was chewing down a bottle of tums a week. Are there any lines that you can bid with a later show time? I compromised and went to an early show and buying a hotel each week for a while. They payoff was I got home sooner and always made the commute home.

I just did the inverse and I'm worried about my outlook. I live in base and am in the top 10 in my base. I'm changing planes and will start commuting because I just cant do 6-7 legs a day to my favorite EAS cities anymore. I'll find out how smart or stupid I was soon enough. Hopefully I'll be WINNING! Isn't this job grand?
 
there are a billion flights a day from SMF to LAX/ONT/BUR/SNA with several different airlines....and a property for sale next door to me :)
 
I've been doing a two-leg 1,500+ mile commute for about four years now (on reserve). I did live in base shy of year a few years ago just go get away from the commute for a while, but I wasn't happy where I was living. I've been displaced twice, furloughed once and had my base changed on me a few times already and now at my second regional with another base change likely this summer. At this point I've decided I'm going to live where I want (west side) and just commute, as horrible as it is. My goal this year is to move to a bigger (hub) city (looking at Denver) and at least cut down to a one leg commute. I think commuting for a major/legacy vs. a regional different. Major/legacy bases tend to stay open longer in one place than the constant regional base shuffle.
 
I echo the "sit tight, wait for old farts to retire / die" sentiment. Then re-evaluate when there is some actual internal movement that you can handle.
 
Yes, I hit the commuter's wall last year after 4 years of reserve. Even though it was only a 200 mile commute, after 10 years in Austin I picked up and moved to Houston last September. Ironically, I got a new job that does gateway-basing 4 months after making the move.

Was it worth it? For me yes. My days off were much more enjoyable and seemed longer.

If I were you I'd bid captain on all equipment in MSP and ATL and move to either place. Those seem to be the two bases with the best combination of stability and affordability, and if you move you likely won't need to do so again for job-related reasons. For me ATL would be the no-brainer, but I'm a southerner. Mrs. Taylor might prefer being closer to her hinterland than swept off to ATL. Keep in mind I'm totally unqualified to be giving this advice, but there ya go.
 
Taylor, I am going to get on the next flight to PHX and beat your ass into the ground if you are even THINKING of moving to a base. You have been preaching for years NEVER move for an airline job. You know better than anyone bases grow, downsize, close in a heart beat.

I feel you man. Imagine trying to commute with no priority for three years to EWR. And I mean NO priority. I was bumped off mainline jumpseats because of guys from other regionals who had a higher priority than me, instead of a first come first serve concept! Thankfully, that has been fixed, but the bottom line is, commuting sucks, but living where you want is priceless.

Stay on the ER, you like the flying, you like the base, and even leaving a day early if you need to with the -ER schedules still probably leaves you more days off than flying the Mad Dog out of any other base.

Love always, Seggy.
 
Commuting doesn't mean you have to fly. It's a 6 to 7 hour drive to LAX, right? Is it really anyworse than spending all day on an airplane? I suppose it might be a little tiring, and you may have to go the day before, but it sounds like you're already doing that half the time anyway. That would at least put you back in control of your commute.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Ok, not one much to aire my dirty laundry on the internet... much... but I'm having a dilemma and wondering if anyone else has gone thru the is.

I'm losing the "commuter's edge" somewhat.

I've enjoyed the luxury of living where I want and just commuting to where my seniority and the flying was the best. MCO to ATL. PHX to DFW. PHX to ATL. PHX to SLC. PHX to NYC.

And I've done some pretty idiotic stuff like 30 minute connections in hub cities to arrive minutes before check-in time. Riding offline without checking loads and all other sorts of interesting stuff to get to work with minimum time on the ground.

Partially from the "Passenger Bill of Rights" where some airlines will cancel an entire day's worth of flying, to having an incident where I had an unexpected cancellation, was barely albe to make a backup flight and ended up arriving AT THE JET 5 minutes prior to push back, if it's even close I'll just leave a day ahead of time just to not have to deal with the stress of spending from 5 to 8 hours of flying and connecting wondering if I'm going to end up in the chief pilot's office because I failed to get to work on time.

Today I'm going to work a day early because the redeye kicks my ass and I don't have any online options the day of my trip without a tight connection and sliding into the pilot lounge 30 minutes, at best, before check-in.

It's honestly only been about four or five times for various weather or schedule-related reasons, but it's causing some occupational stress from effectively losing days off, the guilt of leaving the bride a day early and just another added stressor to an already stress-inducing profession.

LAX would be the easiest commute, but I would take a pay cut and end up working more days to make the same amount of money. Flying more domestic means less per diem, having to abide by 30-in-7 rules (non-augmented flying) and I'd be on the road a lot more by far.

Bidding to captain to fly deep reserve on the MD-88 means less days off, a small pay increase but then I'd go from 85-ish hours of 767 pay to 70 hours of MD-88 pay and increasing commuting costs by having 14 or 15 days sittign in a hotel or a crash pad.

I'd hold a line on the DC-9, but again, in MEM and the pay differential is negligible and I'd go back to my old Skyway Airlines schedule with six leg days, short overnights and waking up in the morning fantasizing about winning the lottery, turning off the alarm clock and doing like Peter from "Office Space". Yeah, not coming in today. Or maybe even tomorrow....


Moving up to larger equipment means lower seniority, better pay rates, but less seniority which might negate any pay increases.

And my options are just biting the bullet and moving to:

LAX: Expensive
SEA: Pricey, rainy!
SLC: Coooooold
MEM: Erm, no.
DTW: Cold, and some of the outlying areas reminds me of "The Road"
MSP: Cold, but have friends that live there
ATL: I'm too mouthy and it's too close to HQ
NYC: Good one! Ha! On an airline pilot's wages?
CVG: Blue Oyster Cult wrote a song about fearing the reaper...

I mean I like Arizona, I'm not necessarily in love with it, but sadly my maximum opportunity for schedule control, cash and seniority involves an almost 3,000 mile transcon commute.

So. Anyone else hit the "Commuter's Brick Wall"?
Click to expand...


Well. Maybe you need to think, "outside the box" so to speak. Have you thought about buying yourself an airplane? I mean, I know that when I was flying over 80hrs per month I sure as hell didn't want to fly any more, but a day in the left seat of your 310/210/mooney/etc. might be kind of fun, and would be a good way to do a different type of flying. It'd also make your commute easier. At very least you could use the airplane to get to a hub that's more suitable to commuting. Convoluted, yes, but it might be better than moving.
 
I agree with FlyChicaga. Move to Chicago area. It is a little easier.

Doug, make you feel better, I have done 20 hours commute from my house to my crashpad which involved rent(out of my own pocket) and drove to my base in freezing rain. That is a story for NJC.
 
Do you have a realistic chance at being able to be a lineholding 777B in ATL or DTW?

It doesn't get much more productive than that thing for people looking to cram in the hours in the least amount of days.
 
What about SLC? Until recently I did a regional sales job from Denver that had me covering SLC as well. I would travel there at least every other week for 4 years. The cost of living there is not bad at all and the weather is very similar to Denver. It's a Delta hub and Denver is only a 50min flight which I would think gives more options for commuting. The mountains are beautiful there as well. Park city is only 35-40min from the airport too.
 
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