Commute Air Off Runway at ROA

So in a 121 environment most pilots feel you should let the other pilot crash if they ignore you vs physically fix the sight picture for a safe landing or go around? Idk if that's the CRM the airlines want. I think a LOT of accidents could have been prevented with "Go Around! Hey, GO AROUND. My airplane? No? *Wap* My bird TOGA go around". A lot of accidents. Obviously verbal is best, but even at like 330 hours I've already seen someone about to break an airplane if I didnt pull the yoke back for them and add a little burst of power because words didn't work. Just because some people took over and made it worse doesn't mean there aren't countless 121 flights we'll never read about because the other pilot saved the bird and no one knew.

Thought we were all on the same page, guess not.

Hopefully we all never encounter something like this ROA incident, but gotta be honest I'm shocked at the consensus of "I guess just watch him crash and at least you tried on the CVR". I am not trying to throw shade at the FO at all, but I'd rather be explaining to a CP why I aggressively had to take over from the CA who ignored my calls which "could have gone bad" than sitting in the EMAS with my hands in my face. If I am ever about to wreck any size airplane and space out in the process ignoring you, hit me over the head with an extinguisher for all I care if I won't give up the controls or I'll be upset that you didn't.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
You should read her interviews with the NTSB in the docket, especially her post-firing interview.

She was on the no fly list of a lot of people and had severe CRM issues.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the SWA FO a buddy of mine was telling me about when he flew there, who would…for a nominal fee…happily trip trade to fly with anyone CA that any of the FOs didn’t want to fly with but were scheduled with. I think he flew with her a number of times. And made some fair bank with his standing offer.

ChasenSFO said:
Hopefully we all never encounter something like this ROA incident, but gotta be honest I'm shocked at the consensus of "I guess just watch him crash and at least you tried on the CVR". I am not trying to throw shade at the FO at all, but I'd rather be explaining to a CP why I aggressively had to take over from the CA who ignored my calls which "could have gone bad" than sitting in the EMAS with my hands in my face. If I am ever about to wreck any size airplane and space out in the process ignoring you, hit me over the head with an extinguisher for all I care if I won't give up the controls or I'll be upset that you didn't.
Click to expand...

Can’t top SWA 1455 / KBUR when it comes to famous last words on the CVR:

Capt: “well, there goes my career. You stupid chit.”
 
ChasenSFO said:
So in a 121 environment most pilots feel you should let the other pilot crash if they ignore you vs physically fix the sight picture for a safe landing or go around? Idk if that's the CRM the airlines want. I think a LOT of accidents could have been prevented with "Go Around! Hey, GO AROUND. My airplane? No? *Wap* My bird TOGA go around". A lot of accidents. Obviously verbal is best, but even at like 330 hours I've already seen someone about to break an airplane if I didnt pull the yoke back for them and add a little burst of power because words didn't work. Just because some people took over and made it worse doesn't mean there aren't countless 121 flights we'll never read about because the other pilot saved the bird and no one knew.

Thought we were all on the same page, guess not.

Hopefully we all never encounter something like this ROA incident, but gotta be honest I'm shocked at the consensus of "I guess just watch him crash and at least you tried on the CVR". I am not trying to throw shade at the FO at all, but I'd rather be explaining to a CP why I aggressively had to take over from the CA who ignored my calls which "could have gone bad" than sitting in the EMAS with my hands in my face. If I am ever about to wreck any size airplane and space out in the process ignoring you, hit me over the head with an extinguisher for all I care if I won't give up the controls or I'll be upset that you didn't.
Click to expand...

Your ninja karate chop solution will, in many scenarios, lead to worse outcomes.

And it's not a common solution to the problem.
 
1761709157368.gif

What a karate chop may look like.
 
killbilly said:
Your ninja karate chop solution will, in many scenarios, lead to worse outcomes.

And it's not a common solution to the problem.
Click to expand...
Meh, just how it happened. Hopefully, all you have to do is grab the crap out of their shoulder or something. Whatever gets their hands off the controls before they bend a prop or collapse the EMAS.

My interpretation of many NTSB reports I've read over the years is that physical intervention could have saved lives. To each their own.
 
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