Commercial checkride

braidkid

New Member
Hi everybody,
Well, I have my commercial checkride scheduled for wednesday. One problem......for my solo long
cross country (300 total, 250 one way, 3 stops) I brought my wife along and logged it in my log
book as both of us in the airplane. That was a stupid mistake because the trip is supposed to be
"solo" so even if she doesnt even know what the wings do it was not technically "solo." So now I'm
in a bind because I dont want to spend the money to do another long cross country. I've decided
I will talk to the examiner about the situation and tell him that she was in the airplane but not
in my logbook (I will cross her name out of the logbook). Any ideas on this wonderful technicality? I've talked to numerous pilots who have taken people with them on the long cross country (who REALLY flies that far solo, you know you've done it too!!!) and just didnt mention anyone in the plane in the logbook. I don't see anything wrong with crossing her name out, telling the examiner about it and letting him decide because everyone knows it was really solo and the point of the trip was met.
 

pure_IMC

New Member
I see your dilema, but sorry to say, I think you are out of luck. Unless you have a de who willing to look past this, which is very unlikely. As far as telling him that she was with you, and just crossing her name off in the logbook, that wouldnt be such a good idea. He is going to ask you to show him this entry, and if he sees it crossed out, dont think that will go over so well. I wish you all the luck let us know how it turns out.
 

drumminpilot

Well-Known Member
I took three other people with me on mine. None of them provided instruction, and none of them acted as safety pilot (only one was a pilot), so it was logged as solo PIC in my logbook. Everybody I know has done this with XC's. I really doubt the DE will look past it, but, it's worth a shot. It's a matter of whether or not you want to take the chance on your ride and cross your fingers that the DE will accept it. My advice: It's gonna be a nice day tomorrow, jack a plane, and knock it out.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself. If you're willing to adjust this rule what other ones don't matter to you? Do the rules only apply when they are in your favor? For the process to be valid you need to follow even the rules that don't work out in your favor in every situation.

I wouldn't try to get it past the DE. Solo means by yourself, not the only person flying the plane.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

What "rules" are you referring to?

I was just reading in my FAR/AIM under 61.129, which is aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. Take a look at part "A" under subpart "i", it states: "One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point."

That's verbatim, word-for-word. After reading that whole paragraph I don't see the word "solo" anywhere. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks pretty cut and dry to me...

[ QUOTE ]
If you're willing to adjust this rule what other ones don't matter to you? Do the rules only apply when they are in your favor? For the process to be valid you need to follow even the rules that don't work out in your favor in every situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

John, why don't you lay off Braidkid a bit; your tone is pretty nasty. Why would you insinuate that he may be breaking other "rules" when you don't even know the guy?
He has his checkride on Wednesday, and posted a question on Jetcareers looking for some CONSTRUCTIVE advice, not a bashing...
 

Buzo

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But it stands that the rules state solo, which means by yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

What "rules" are you referring to?

I was just reading in my FAR/AIM under 61.129, which is aeronautical experience for commercial pilots. Take a look at part "A" under subpart "i", it states: "One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point."

That's verbatim, word-for-word. After reading that whole paragraph I don't see the word "solo" anywhere. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks pretty cut and dry to me...


[/ QUOTE ]

Read the whole section, it says 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which inclueds at least-
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 miles.......
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Read the whole section, it says 10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of this part, which inclueds at least-
(i) One cross-country flight of not less than 300 miles.......

[/ QUOTE ]

Buzo...

I'm not seeing the part you're referring to. Under 61.129, I see 10hrs instrument training, 10hrs in complex aircraft, but I don't see the part stating "solo" areas of operation. Furthermore, under 61.127 part "b", subpart "1" it lists 11 items, none of which say anything about cross-country flight.

I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to clearly understand this rule...
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
It does say "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane" in 61.129 (a)(4. I am struggling to find a definition of solo flight. I know its sole manipulator of controls, so I don't see where there is a problem if someone rides along.
 

fucius

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It does say "10 hours of solo flight in a single-engine airplane" in 61.129 (a)(4. I am struggling to find a definition of solo flight. I know its sole manipulator of controls, so I don't see where there is a problem if someone rides along.

[/ QUOTE ]

Solo flight..."logging of solo flight time" 61.51(d) states,"a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft."
 

braidkid

New Member
Mr. Herreshoff,
I see your point about not breaking the rules. My point was, what is the intent of the law? The intent of the law is for me to fly a cross country of at least 300 miles on my own. I've flown at least 2 trips to Colorado with people who can't fly to save their lives and a 20 hour trip to Vegas. I think the intent of the law in my case has been met. The only thing I was stating in my post is it's a shame I made note of my passengers in my log and now I have to shell out another $250 to do the same thing I'm fully capable of.
I think you will find that probably 80 to 90 percent of these long cross countrys are made with other people in the airplane, they are just not mentioned in the log book. I dont have a problem with this as long as the person doesnt have a student/private license and I think this FAR should be rewritten in a way that doesn't create such a grey area for so many people. There, now I'm off my soap box and I'm going to bite the bullet and get what I need done tonight for my checkride tomorrow....thanks everyone for your thoughts.
Later...
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
braidkid: here's a suggestion - call AOPA and ask their legal department (if you're a member, that is). They will have the answer for you.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Heya,


The point of my post, and the use of my wording was pulled from the trial and death of Socrates by Plato. Socrates was setenced to death by the state and instead of going into exile he went through with his death sentence because that's what the law said. The point being, follow the rules even when they don't work out in your favor. I know this is not a life or death matter, but when we can disreguard the rules when they don't fit into our plans then what good are any of the rules?

I know it's a BS reg, and I'm going to have to be doing that same long cross country soon myself. But it remains, if you're willing to bend this one; what's the next one that you'll be willing to bend?

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

Buzo

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]

Buzo...

I'm not seeing the part you're referring to. Under 61.129, I see 10hrs instrument training, 10hrs in complex aircraft, but I don't see the part stating "solo" areas of operation. Furthermore, under 61.127 part "b", subpart "1" it lists 11 items, none of which say anything about cross-country flight.

I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to clearly understand this rule...


[/ QUOTE ]

61.129(a)(4)(i)

Section 129 lists the eligibility requirements. Subpart a is for a single engine rating.

1&2 and the subparts associated with them list the total experience

3 lists that you need 20 hours of training (dual). The subparts of 3 lists the things that must make up those 20 hours

4 says you need 10 hours of solo which includes everything listed in the subparts of that section (i)&(ii)
 

Buzo

Well-Known Member
Braidkid,

I have talked to two different examiners about this in the past. The examiner I took my commercial ride with goes with the, I won't ask if you don't volunteer. The examiner I took the CFI ride with made sure to emphasize that it had to be SOLO. She said there is no interpretation involved, it is by yourself.

My suggestion is to ask the examiner before the checkride. Do not wait until you are handing them the money and proving you are elegible. AOPA also has the stance of it must be by yourself.
 

braidkid

New Member
man, i never really considered what Socrates would have done!!!!
Anyway, after much whaling and knashing of teeth, I've decided to fly my 300 mile x country tonight and I've decided to do it by myself. I won't even bring my dog along because God knows, if I get into trouble or need help he could come to my rescue.
I have my checkride tomorrow morning....man, talk about last minute!!! Hopefully tomorrow I will be a "commercial pilot" and will finally have achieved my dream!!!
Talk to yall later........
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
Interesting that Socrates got brought up in this conversation… We were just talking about him in my Humanities class today… Very interesting fellow.

This regulation is really starting to irritate the hell out of me! I spoke with two different CFI’s, both gold seal by the way, and they both agreed that having your wife along or any other non-pilot is legal as long as you’re the pilot in command. The deal is you have to be the SOLO PIC to log it as solo. Braidkid was the PIC, therefore it counts… I’m going to call AOPA tomorrow morning and have a chat with them…

Anyway, fly safe on your trip tonight Ryan!!
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Braidkid, good luck to you; flyitup I agree with you, and I think the intent of the law is fulfilled if you fly it as PIC. braidkid I think you had three options (I stumbled onto this late, and I see you have already chosen)
1) just call the examiner; he or she will be the one to decide anyways - get a definative answer
2) repeat the flight - get more experience
3) try to sneak it by - probably the worst of the three

anywas it's a moot point but I am interested in wha tyou find fly
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Braidkid, good luck to you; flyitup I agree with you, and I think the intent of the law is fulfilled if you fly it as PIC. braidkid I think you had three options (I stumbled onto this late, and I see you have already chosen)
1) just call the examiner; he or she will be the one to decide anyways - get a definative answer
2) repeat the flight - get more experience
3) try to sneak it by - probably the worst of the three

anywas it's a moot point but I am interested in wha tyou find fly

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed, I'm glad someone is seeing eye to eye with me...

The bad thing is I don't think Braidkid really even needed to fly that trip again tonight. He never broke a rule..

Oh well, it's not a complete waist, at least he's building more hours/experience as Ed stated...
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
So you're saying that by the definition of solo I can take someone flying with me when I'm a student pilot?

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 
Top