Colgan guys that didnt get paid this morning

[Hernandezcfi]

yes and no. Does CJC suck? Yes. Was it great for my logbook and career? Looks like it.

I have 5.5 years here and have accumulated 3200turbine PIC. I would say I am in a relatively good position to move on this year where my friends at many other airlines have not upgraded yet.

Bam! Right there see?!...and you made more money then them in the long run even if they chose to work for Righteous Airlines! I bet they were laughing and pointing at you during your first year at Colgan too. Who's laughing now?

Que those who love to pound sand with the usual rhetoric about what's good for the industry and what not. They will call you a blasphemous thief for walking away from the Regionals in such a short time with a logbook fat full of Turbine PIC!

 

[SmitteyB]

While coming to Colgan seems to have been a great career move and offered me an AMAZING QOL, it isn't all about the Turbine PIC like so many guys think it is.

1000 TPIC isn't the magic number anymore. It's more like 3,000+. Think about all the guys at XJT, ASA, PNCL, RAH, SKYW, CMR, AWAC, PSA who have been sitting left seat since 2005 or so. 1000 isn't going to do it anymore guys.

Also- let's face the facts- Jet TPIC is different than turboprop TPIC (not my opinion). Ask JetBlue or Delta.

 

[L-16B]

While coming to Colgan seems to have been a great career move and offered me an AMAZING QOL, it isn't all about the Turbine PIC like so many guys think it is.

1000 TPIC isn't the magic number anymore. It's more like 3,000+. Think about all the guys at XJT, ASA, PNCL, RAH, SKYW, CMR, AWAC, PSA who have been sitting left seat since 2005 or so. 1000 isn't going to do it anymore guys.

Also- let's face the facts- Jet TPIC is different than turboprop TPIC (not my opinion). Ask JetBlue or Delta.

x

I disagree... It's who ya know!!

 

[GlenA]

While coming to Colgan seems to have been a great career move and offered me an AMAZING QOL, it isn't all about the Turbine PIC like so many guys think it is.

1000 TPIC isn't the magic number anymore. It's more like 3,000+. Think about all the guys at XJT, ASA, PNCL, RAH, SKYW, CMR, AWAC, PSA who have been sitting left seat since 2005 or so. 1000 isn't going to do it anymore guys.

Also- let's face the facts- Jet TPIC is different than turboprop TPIC (not my opinion). Ask JetBlue or Delta.

Yet somehow those darn turboprop guys keep getting hired by both companies...somebody must be slipping!

 

[v1valarob]

While coming to Colgan seems to have been a great career move and offered me an AMAZING QOL, it isn't all about the Turbine PIC like so many guys think it is.

1000 TPIC isn't the magic number anymore. It's more like 3,000+. Think about all the guys at XJT, ASA, PNCL, RAH, SKYW, CMR, AWAC, PSA who have been sitting left seat since 2005 or so. 1000 isn't going to do it anymore guys.

Also- let's face the facts- Jet TPIC is different than turboprop TPIC (not my opinion). Ask JetBlue or Delta.

Its all to do with timing. Like I mentioned, a guy who was hired in 2007 at CJC was able to upgrade, and get hired on with JetBlue. If he had gone to somewhere else, he would most likely have had seen a furlough and then maybe within the past year been brought back on.

The only reason Colgan has never furloughed is because they run a skeleton crew, and because of the crap work conditions, even in this economy, we STILL see attrition. Colgan has only furloughed once, and that was for a few weeks after 9/11. Im sure they then had people say "this place aint worth it" and quit, and then the furloughs were called back.

 

[Maurus]

Yet somehow those darn turboprop guys keep getting hired by both companies...somebody must be slipping!

Polar/Atlas, Allegiant and Kalitta Air all want Jet PIC. I don't know if that is just because they can or the new direction some airlines are going but I can see some T-prop people possibly being at a disadvantage. Heck I met someone with tons of P-180 TPIC time that interviewed at Allegiant but was not hired because of not having Jet PIC.

 

[Polar742]

Polar/Atlas, Allegiant and Kalitta Air all want Jet PIC. I don't know if that is just because they can or the new direction some airlines are going but I can see some T-prop people possibly being at a disadvantage. Heck I met someone with tons of P-180 TPIC time that interviewed at Allegiant but was not hired because of not having Jet PIC.

Of the three you mentioned, I can comment on two. Polar/Atlas is because they can at this point. However, I see that rapidly changing as other companies start hiring and we're back to forgotten. Kalitta, according to their recruiter I met at NJC, their minimums are driven by insurance. He even made the comment to me that he thought it was silly and would like to give some folks a look, but just can't.

 

[KLB]

Polar/Atlas, Allegiant and Kalitta Air all want Jet PIC. I don't know if that is just because they can or the new direction some airlines are going but I can see some T-prop people possibly being at a disadvantage. Heck I met someone with tons of P-180 TPIC time that interviewed at Allegiant but was not hired because of not having Jet PIC.

I don't know what Allegiant is asking for these days, but there were a lot of former AMF'ers hired their in the last few years. It's all about timing and who else is hiring. Some companies can choose to have more stringent mins due to the large pull of applicants. But once everyone else starts to hire those stringent mins will come down.

 

[Boris Badenov]

What are the jet PIC minimums at the ACMIs, those who know? Just planning to save myself some application headaches if I'm not even in the ballpark.

 

[Maurus]

Of the three you mentioned, I can comment on two. Polar/Atlas is because they can at this point. However, I see that rapidly changing as other companies start hiring and we're back to forgotten. Kalitta, according to their recruiter I met at NJC, their minimums are driven by insurance. He even made the comment to me that he thought it was silly and would like to give some folks a look, but just can't.

I don't know what Allegiant is asking for these days, but there were a lot of former AMF'ers hired their in the last few years. It's all about timing and who else is hiring. Some companies can choose to have more stringent mins due to the large pull of applicants. But once everyone else starts to hire those stringent mins will come down.

I'm sure the mins will drop. I didn't know if they were insurance mins or not.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Bam! Right there see?!...and you made more money then them in the long run even if they chose to work for Righteous Airlines! I bet they were laughing and pointing at you during your first year at Colgan too. Who's laughing now?

Que those who love to pound sand with the usual rhetoric about what's good for the industry and what not. They will call you a blasphemous thief for walking away from the Regionals in such a short time with a logbook fat full of Turbine PIC!

If you speaking of money earned for amount of time at a airline, then it would make more sense to add up 5 years of earnings compared to people at other regional airlines rather than a single year's snapshot. Furthermore, I think you are trying to compare money he hasn't earned yet when he gets that big time mainline job he hasn't got yet.

I only do this to further the discussion rather than let you end it with a slam on the desk and a "I told you so." It's a strange pair of blinders people wear when it comes to money earned. If there's a race to get to a legacy and make more money it makes sense to me that you'd stay away from regionals (make more at a real job) until there is a high probability of the quickest upgrade at the regional with the worst QOL, and jumping off to a Legacy. Putting things into perspective, 5.5 years at Colgan is not a short time even if you're logbook is "fat full of Tubine PIC", and really looks stupid compared to the guy/gal who spent 3 years at Mistakes and went to Southwest because they had 3 recommendation letters from line pilots and their Dad/Mom walked the resume in. Has happened by the way.

 

[Hernandezcfi]

If you speaking of money earned for amount of time at a airline, then it would make more sense to add up 5 years of earnings compared to people at other regional airlines rather than a single year's snapshot. Furthermore, I think you are trying to compare money he hasn't earned yet when he gets that big time mainline job he hasn't got yet.

I only do this to further the discussion rather than let you end it with a slam on the desk and a "I told you so." It's a strange pair of blinders people wear when it comes to money earned. If there's a race to get to a legacy and make more money it makes sense to me that you'd stay away from regionals (make more at a real job) until there is a high probability of the quickest upgrade at the regional with the worst QOL, and jumping off to a Legacy. Putting things into perspective, 5.5 years at Colgan is not a short time even if you're logbook is "fat full of Tubine PIC", and really looks stupid compared to the guy/gal who spent 3 years at Mistakes and went to Southwest because they had 3 recommendation letters from line pilots and their Dad/Mom walked the resume in. Has happened by the way.

I know...everyone has to have the last word!

Nope, just referring to the money made in 5.5 years at Colgan performing the duties of the mans chosen profession while the friends at Righteous Airlines probably used higher starting FO pay at their employer as one of the usual arguments against working for Colgan.

I was not even thinking that deep. That takes too much effort while holding a beer AND typing.

 

[Airdale]

Bam! Right there see?!...and you made more money then them in the long run even if they chose to work for Righteous Airlines! I bet they were laughing and pointing at you during your first year at Colgan too. Who's laughing now?

Que those who love to pound sand with the usual rhetoric about what's good for the industry and what not. They will call you a blasphemous thief for walking away from the Regionals in such a short time with a logbook fat full of Turbine PIC!

Such a typical response from someone at Colgan (no offense to Smittey, Rocketman or Seggs of course). You try to justify your sacrifice of such "horrible" working conditions because you're padding up your logbook with TPIC. Meanwhile, those of us who chose a bit better path aren't on the edge of blowing a coronary everyday...or waiting for our paychecks.

The fact is, with all of the negative press Colgan has received, I would take my turbine jet SIC over your turbine PIC anyday. Because the fact of the matter is, if I were at Colgan right now, I'd be embarrassed to tell a Delta or American interviewer that I work for Colgan. Its no secret that the training sucks, the procedures are shady and the company is a pubic hair from being shutdown by the Feds. So you have 4 stripes? That doesn't mean everything. At a lot of other companies, we have much better training programs, much better safety records, much better recurrent training, Pc's and evaluations. A lot of other companies run more closely to the type of airline you hope to someday retire from. And with all due respect, if I were on an interview commitee at a legacy carrier, that would mean more to me than whether or not you have 3 stripes or 4.

Can you get a job with your Colgan TPIC at a legacy? Sure you can...but I'm willing to bet a lot of folks that come from well reputable carriers with nothing more than Jet SIC will go before you. Colgan is a black mark on the airline industry. It is a shady operation and quite frankly its scary. That is no shot towards you Colgan pilots, but I saw some things at Colgan that made me consider a job as a parking valet at a hotel. You have no idea what life is like in the airline industry outside of Colgan.

 

[sherpa]

Such a typical response from someone at Colgan (no offense to Smittey, Rocketman or Seggs of course). You try to justify your sacrifice of such "horrible" working conditions because you're padding up your logbook with TPIC. Meanwhile, those of us who chose a bit better path aren't on the edge of blowing a coronary everyday...or waiting for our paychecks.

The fact is, with all of the negative press Colgan has received, I would take my turbine jet SIC over your turbine PIC anyday. Because the fact of the matter is, if I were at Colgan right now, I'd be embarrassed to tell a Delta or American interviewer that I work for Colgan. Its no secret that the training sucks, the procedures are shady and the company is a pubic hair from being shutdown by the Feds. So you have 4 stripes? That doesn't mean everything. At a lot of other companies, we have much better training programs, much better safety records, much better recurrent training, Pc's and evaluations. A lot of other companies run more closely to the type of airline you hope to someday retire from. And with all due respect, if I were on an interview commitee at a legacy carrier, that would mean more to me than whether or not you have 3 stripes or 4.

Can you get a job with your Colgan TPIC at a legacy? Sure you can...but I'm willing to bet a lot of folks that come from well reputable carriers with nothing more than Jet SIC will go before you. Colgan is a black mark on the airline industry. It is a shady operation and quite frankly its scary. That is no shot towards you Colgan pilots, but I saw some things at Colgan that made me consider a job as a parking valet at a hotel. You have no idea what life is like in the airline industry outside of Colgan.

First, I was not bragging just weighing benefits/detriments. There are some benefits of working at CJC. It comes down to what you need/are looking for. If not for age 65 and the economic crash I would have likely moved on by now. Many guys here are in the same boat. There are CJC guys with nothing more than SF time who have moved on to Delta, JetBlue and Airtran in the past couple of months. We have lost over half of our MX staff at EWR to mainline carriers and recently several FA's to Delta.

CJC has pilots all over the place. CAL, UAL, FedEx, JBLue, Allegiant, World, North American, Alaska, UsAirways, Delta, Southwest and others have all hired CJC drivers. I don't see that changing as the hiring wave picks back up.

Again, I am not saying this was a better choice than another regional, but there are some pluses to choosing this place over others.

 

[Airdale]

First, I was not bragging just weighing benefits/detriments. There are some benefits of working at CJC. It comes down to what you need/are looking for. If not for age 65 and the economic crash I would have likely moved on by now. Many guys here are in the same boat. There are CJC guys with nothing more than SF time who have moved on to Delta, JetBlue and Airtran in the past couple of months. We have lost over half of our MX staff at EWR to mainline carriers and recently several FA's to Delta.

CJC has pilots all over the place. CAL, UAL, FedEx, JBLue, Allegiant, World, North American, Alaska, UsAirways, Delta, Southwest and others have all hired CJC drivers. I don't see that changing as the hiring wave picks back up.

Again, I am not saying this was a better choice than another regional, but there are some pluses to choosing this place over others.

I wasn't responding to you bro, I quoted that Hernandez guy. And look I have nothing against the guys at Colgan, to each his own. Me, personally, there was no way I could stay at that place any longer. In my opinion it was absolutely not worth the price. In fact, my move to Republic has me stuck in the right seat for who knows how long, but I'll take this any day over being a Captain at Colgan. Again, to each his own and I respect that. But I definitely wonder whether or not Colgan's reputation severly limits options for Colgan pilots who wish to move up. I actually feel like I work for a real airline now.

 

[Cruise]

I wasn't responding to you bro, I quoted that Hernandez guy. And look I have nothing against the guys at Colgan, to each his own. Me, personally, there was no way I could stay at that place any longer. In my opinion it was absolutely not worth the price. In fact, my move to Republic has me stuck in the right seat for who knows how long, but I'll take this any day over being a Captain at Colgan. Again, to each his own and I respect that. But I definitely wonder whether or not Colgan's reputation severly limits options for Colgan pilots who wish to move up. I actually feel like I work for a real airline now.

Yawn......

 

[Louie1975]

I would love to say "here we go" with regards to the direction the thread is going. But, does it really matter after this merger is completed?

 

[kellwolf]

Its all to do with timing. Like I mentioned, a guy who was hired in 2007 at CJC was able to upgrade, and get hired on with JetBlue. If he had gone to somewhere else, he would most likely have had seen a furlough and then maybe within the past year been brought back on.

See, and here I am, hired on in 2006 at Pinnacle, upgraded in 2008, and no call for even an interview for me. I second the "it's all in who you know." Even with internal recs and an invite only open house, I'm no closer to getting out of 9E than I was a year and a half ago when I cracked the "magic" 1000TPIC. Meanwhile, we've got a couple of FOs that left here to go to jetBlue. One was a previous employee. Maybe I shoulda worked the ramp for them instead of SWA.

 

[Maurus]

I know...everyone has to have the last word!

Nope, just referring to the money made in 5.5 years at Colgan performing the duties of the mans chosen profession while the friends at Righteous Airlines probably used higher starting FO pay at their employer as one of the usual arguments against working for Colgan.

I was not even thinking that deep. That takes too much effort while holding a beer AND typing.

Quick upgrade VS. QOL. Some people aren't willing to take the chance to go to a low paying, bad QOL company just for the possibility of a quick upgrade. So far Colgan hasn't been bad for the upgrades, but if/when the crap hits the fan where would you want to be?

Also unless there are fences put up I can see new Colgan pilots having a really long upgrade as there are many senior guys sitting in Pinnacle and Mesaba that wouldn't mind hopping into the left seat of a Q400 not to mention the furloughs from Mesaba.

 

[KLB]

See, and here I am, hired on in 2006 at Pinnacle, upgraded in 2008, and no call for even an interview for me. I second the "it's all in who you know." Even with internal recs and an invite only open house, I'm no closer to getting out of 9E than I was a year and a half ago when I cracked the "magic" 1000TPIC. Meanwhile, we've got a couple of FOs that left here to go to jetBlue. One was a previous employee. Maybe I shoulda worked the ramp for them instead of SWA.

I know that is someone from DSU who's been pulling guys into jetBlue. There has to be and it's someone from around the years that I went there. A few guys from your company and some other guys that are also alumni's from DSU have gotten hired at JetBlue. I just need to find out who it is.