CNN Video: Safety Rule Could Create Pilot Shortage

Trip7 said:
This quantifying of pilot ability solely on flight time is beyond rediculous.
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I don't believe that this has ever actually been the issue. Airlines still interview pilots and make hiring decisions based on attitude, personality, background, performance, etc -- not just hours.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
What I'm trying to figure out from you is where you expect pilots to get the kind of experience that you previously complained that the FO in the Colgan crash didn't have. Specifically, in-flight icing and significant amounts of actual instrument. You have strongly implied that you think someone in the right seat of a regional airliner should already have this experience when they start flying at the airline. I'm trying to figure out where you expect this experience to come from, since the average airline newhire is going to continue to come from a CFI background.
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Kind of goes with the conundrum of every entry level job requiring 500TT and some amount of dual given to be a CFI. Not saying that's everywhere, but it seems pretty hard to get a foot in the door to even gain experience these days.
 
z987k said:
That is not your typical flight school. Special VFR? Ha! The flight school I went to all but canceled all the flights, including IFR, if the weather got anywhere near MVFR. Winds much above 20 and no one's going, TS within 200nm...... no one's allowed to go. And judging from what I hear from other CFI's at different places it's not uncommon.
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Well that's lame. Our flight school did have somewhat higher minimums, IIRC 400/1 for IFR with a CFI on board, or 800/1 for student solo doing local approaches, but we went out cloud blasting every chance we got. 1, because all of us recognized that it was good for our students and 2, because all of us were desperate to log every .1 of actual that we could. And thunderstorms, wellll, provided they were scattered enough that you had ways through and/or outs, we flew near them all the time. You just can't train in Texas in the summer if you're going to cancel any time there are VCTS in the TAF.
 
Roger Roger said:
Well that's lame. Our flight school did have somewhat higher minimums, IIRC 400/1 for IFR with a CFI on board, or 800/1 for student solo doing local approaches, but we went out cloud blasting every chance we got. 1, because all of us recognized that it was good for our students and 2, because all of us were desperate to log every .1 of actual that we could. And thunderstorms, wellll, provided they were scattered enough that you had ways through and/or outs, we flew near them all the time. You just can't train in Texas in the summer if you're going to cancel any time there are VCTS in the TAF.
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The school I taught at in FL didnt really have a policy if there was a CFI board. We used to call students at 6 in the morning if it was low ceilings/ some fog to go do approaches ( there was a list of people interested) great experience for them. Our CP would go up with students when it was 200 1/2...
 
Ian J said:
He didn't say working one's way up is elitist. He said assuming one's path is the only path is elitist.

He didn't criticize YOUR path.
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The ability to disagree with each other makes our country great, and so goes for our profession. My mantra is that 250/wet comm is too low for 121 ops. The new law changes this, and makes considerations for various backgrounds, ensuring a higher level of experience will be occupying the right seat. Not everyone is ready for 121 ops out of flight school. Why water down minimums for the few who may be stars? I for one, am glad the minimum has been raised. Won't the star pilots be even better with a little more time?

There are many ways to develop one's airmanship abilities, and I gave my story. I didn't think I said you must follow my steps, but do something besides the complain the minimums haven't fallen to one's current level. There are experience developing opportunities...partner up on a Cessna 150...the list goes on.

My particular frustration is towards those who say CFI, freight, power line, etc. jobs don't exist anymore. Get a subscription to climbto350.com. I have posted and PM'd jobs for people and gotten a response of "yeah, but....I don't wanna". There are ways to do it. The responsibility to put that plan into action is not mine, but my plan ended up working, which I do recommend.
 
Dugie8 said:
So, where do you suggest people be forced to go to gain dual engine failure experience and water landing experience with no engnies, turbine disc failure and complete loss of hydraulic experience?

We can't argue on one hand that we want pilots with a light years worth of depth of experience but have no realistic way of gaining it. Folks like Hacker, Boris, UAL, etc are the exception, they were all born aviation gods with thousands of hours of turbine PIC (SPIFR TO BOOT!!!!!!) but for the rest of the mere mortals on the 3rd mudball from the large fusion generator, what's the plan? Only the above mentioned get the gold star and the rest get to beg at the table for scraps?
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:p
I'm not speaking of myself, I'm speaking of the 135 world in general. I just fly a 210/Baron for god sakes.

All I'm advocating is that a 121 regional just isn't an entry level position, even though the pay and QOL may suggest that it is. Nor do I feel that this is the next step for a CFI. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
UAL747400 said:
I have 6 of them with a 12 pack of American gut wash! I foresee some problems latter...:eek:
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"Dear Policyholder, upon further review of your profile here at Penn Life Insurance and unforeseen circumstances, your 30-year level term premiums will be adjusted..." :)
 
Derg said:
"Dear Policyholder, upon further review of your profile here at Penn Life Insurance and unforeseen circumstances, your 30-year level term premiums will be adjusted..." :)
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was thinking more of short term issues. haha
 
All the old timers I've talked to have a million stories about scaring themselves in GA airplanes and learning a lot from it. Whenever I scare myself in an airplane and chat with my peers about it, I'm usually met with, "Wow you idiot, I have X hours and I've never scared myself!". And here I was thinking personal minimums are based on "Holy crap, that was stupid. Won't be doing that again" instead of "Well, Cessna says a 15 knot x-wind is the highest demonstrated, so that is my limit". Pussification of American pilots. I'd rather have a guy who has made a few mistakes and learned from them up front and flying my family around then the guy who never ventured into any grey areas and is likely to first encounter one with paying people behind him. Of course, there is no way to gather this information from a persons logbook. Unless I'm not the only one to include remarks like "Thunderstorm awareness" and "Weight and Balance re-education" to look back on.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Whenever I scare myself in an airplane and chat with my peers about it, I'm usually met with, "Wow you idiot, I have X hours and I've never scared myself!".
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Like the old saying: those that have and those that will. The other guys either haven't had the opportunity yet, or are lying.
 
ChasenSFO said:
All the old timers I've talked to have a million stories about scaring themselves in GA airplanes and learning a lot from it. Whenever I scare myself in an airplane and chat with my peers about it, I'm usually met with, "Wow you idiot, I have X hours and I've never scared myself!". And here I was thinking personal minimums are based on "Holy crap, that was stupid. Won't be doing that again" instead of "Well, Cessna says a 15 knot x-wind is the highest demonstrated, so that is my limit". Pussification of American pilots. I'd rather have a guy who has made a few mistakes and learned from them up front and flying my family around then the guy who never ventured into any grey areas and is likely to first encounter one with paying people behind him. Of course, there is no way to gather this information from a persons logbook. Unless I'm not the only one to include remarks like "Thunderstorm awareness" and "Weight and Balance re-education" to look back on.
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Let me tell you "about a guy" that had to push forward almost to the stops in the flare once. :aghast:

Oh and a 172 lands quite nicely in a 46 knot cross-wind. You just angle it in from the leeward side of the runway and your GS drops so low in the flare that there's almost no side-loading! Fun times! :smoke:
 
ChasenSFO said:
All the old timers I've talked to have a million stories about scaring themselves in GA airplanes and learning a lot from it. Whenever I scare myself in an airplane and chat with my peers about it, I'm usually met with, "Wow you idiot, I have X hours and I've never scared myself!". And here I was thinking personal minimums are based on "Holy crap, that was stupid. Won't be doing that again" instead of "Well, Cessna says a 15 knot x-wind is the highest demonstrated, so that is my limit". Pussification of American pilots. I'd rather have a guy who has made a few mistakes and learned from them up front and flying my family around then the guy who never ventured into any grey areas and is likely to first encounter one with paying people behind him. Of course, there is no way to gather this information from a persons logbook. Unless I'm not the only one to include remarks like "Thunderstorm awareness" and "Weight and Balance re-education" to look back on.
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"You don't learn nothin' from not trying. The trick is to survive the learning years".
 
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