CL65 Type Ratings?

[DE727UPS]

Does DCA have a program to get a CL65 type rating? If so, how much turbine time would a guy have before he gets that type rating? How much real life experience in jets does he have before he gets that ticket? What total time?

I guess I'm old school but I think jet types are sacred. You earn one after putting in some time in a real jet airplane in the right seat. When you are ready, you get a chance to check out in the left seat and get a jet type rating. I've been a jet F/O for over 10 years (727, 757 767), have over 10,000 hours total time, and yet I still see the jet type rating as a major accomplishment to achieve. To think that you are qualifed to have one at under 1000 total time and no practical experience boggles my mind....

 

[planediveguy]

Don ,

As far as I know, the FTD used in our campus is dedicated to the bridge program. This program was developed to help instructors with only 1000TT transition from a Piper Seminole to the RJ. The objective was to make it easier for those intructors to go through FO training.

All the guys that I've met that were hired and completed the bridge program told me that it made a difference.

By the way, the bridge program is free for our intructors.

 

[planediveguy]

I may be wrong, but I don't think that a type rating is offered...

 

[chrisdahut1]

No, we can't offer a type rating course with only an FTD. And we certainly don't have the real thing!

 

[NJA_Capt]

[ QUOTE ]
To think that you are qualified to have one at under 1000 total time and no practical experience boggles my mind....

[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto
[ QUOTE ]
This program was developed to help instructors with only 1000TT transition from a Piper Seminole to the RJ. The objective was to make it easier for those instructors to go through FO training.

... the bridge program is free for our instructors.

[/ QUOTE ]
The only good part of that quote is something "free" for instructors.

There is a lot of experience to be gained between the Seminole and the RJ. To "leave out" everything in between and jump into an RJ borderlines on irresponsible.

The REAL bridge program has been in place for many decades. It's called 1000 ours dual given, banner towing, crop dusting, SEL air freight, then light twin air freight (hand flown), charter (light twins, light-med turbine twins), and corporate. Then maybe a few hundred hours in a Citation or Lear.

Every time I hear a CFI say he is burned out with 200 dual given, it makes me want to choke him. Don't they think they'll be just as burned out after doing 200 hours between CLE and IAD? Gee, the autopilot does the flying, ops does the planning, and ATC tells you "where to go."

 

[H46Bubba]

DCA DOES NOT offer a CL65 type rating. The bridge trainer is merley a tool to get instructors familiarized with the glass cockpit and how it operates. We have sim instructors that are prior line pilots. When Comair got rid of their EMB-120's Comair instructors started getting hired into the CRJ. They were failing their interview and class sims, due to the huge leap from dial and gauges to EFIS. So Comair and the school put their heads together and came up with the bridge program. FRASCA specially built a sim the replcates the CRJ cockpit. I've flown it several time and even though it is motionless it does give you the feeling that you're actually physically moving. Now the are letting the multi students utilize the sim for their sim lessons.

 

[NJA_Capt]

[ QUOTE ]
DCA DOES NOT offer a CL65 type rating.

[/ QUOTE ]


DE727UPS and I weren’t referring to DCA specifically. He just asked if DCA had one. It carried over from SJFLYER’s post under XJT here I come!
[ QUOTE ]
My times were 700TT and 130 multi. I have a CFI, CFI-I, MEI and a CL- 65 type rating.

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[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]

The REAL bridge program has been in place for many decades. It's called 1000 ours dual given, banner towing, crop dusting, SEL air freight, then light twin air freight (hand flown), charter (light twins, light-med turbine twins), and corporate. Then maybe a few hundred hours in a Citation or Lear.


[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, those were the old days....can't I buy my way in??[/sarcasm]

[ QUOTE ]

Every time I hear a CFI say he is burned out with 200 dual given, it makes me want to choke him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, I'm just a "newbie" in this aviation thing, and I know that after 6 years, I can't possibly know if I like it or not - but I do indeed love being a CFI! I think it's crazy that folks are in such a hurry to move on! I'm really 'living the dream' - hell, I've been waiting for this for years!!!

 

[yankee_one]

So Lloyd, got any good "my student nearly killed me today" stories???

 

[derg]

Shoot, I've had captains try to kill me!

 

[yankee_one]

I bet ! BTW thanks for the LAS Hotel info, but they were all booked up. Ended up in a cottage on Lake Mead!!

 

[planediveguy]

There is a lot of experience to be gained between the Seminole and the RJ. To "leave out" everything in between and jump into an RJ borderlines on irresponsible.

_______________________________________________________



I see where you are coming from and have to agree with you... but at the same time the facts are that COMAIR and others have hired instructors from "big" schools as FO's for a good time now. and since they are still doing it, isn't it fare to say that it has been working for them?

_______________________________________________________


Gee, the autopilot does the flying, ops does the planning, and ATC tells you "where to go."


Maybe that is the reason for it...

 

[chrisdahut1]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a lot of experience to be gained between the Seminole and the RJ. To "leave out" everything in between and jump into an RJ borderlines on irresponsible.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be sure to pass on that information to my new employer when I start class next month. I'm sure they'll be surprised to know they've been doing it wrong all these years.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Hey, Chris, I'm not "hating" on the academies or any of the grads. I like seeing people move up...opens up space for new folks!

That being said, the airlines have never been known for being "responsible"...lol.

 

[NJA_Capt]

So what you believe is this.
A person should be able to play Major League Baseball without playing in the minors for experience.
A person should be able to be a doctor without residency.
A Federal Judge should be elected without being a lawyer.

When someone in your family needs heart surgery, are you going to pick a doctor that got his experience in 6 months at a "doctor mill?" Or would you prefer one with years of "practicing" experience?

So, why has it become acceptable to fly an airliner without regard to the same level of standards? Commuters have gone from 14 seats to 70 seats. Routes have gone from 50nm to 2000nm. Cockpits have gone from analog to EFIS. Yet, the experience required has gone from 3000tt to 600tt, and the pay still reflects the 50nm days.

Large schools perpetuate themselves by selling a product to you. We have heard this BS about a pilot shortage for 20 years, when there are still 10,000 furloughed pilots with up to 15 years of 121 experience.

 

[chrisdahut1]

So 1200 hours total time is NO EXPERIENCE to you NJA Captain? I may not have the experience that YOU would like to see, but to say I have not paid any dues at all is insulting.

And how much time should I have before I get into an RJ? Let's hear what arbitrary number you come up with.

 

[derg]

Ahh geez, I wake up and my forum becomes airliners.net.

Not taking any sides here because it's a good discussion, but in a macro sense, 1200 hours isn't really all that much experience. When you're surrounded by CFI's and flight students, yes, but in professional aviation, it certainly falls in the n00b range.

 

[chrisdahut1]

I didn't say it was Doug, and I was careful with how I worded my response. I was trying to point out that his comparisons were invalid as they suggested I walked into a jet job with an ink still wet on the ticket commercial.

And my apologies for the heated debate. There are some issues that touch a nerve with me. I'll just agree to disagree on this one.

 

[NJA_Capt]

Disclaimer added: This subject is NOT directed at any individual, group of individuals, school, or gang members. It is a broad generalization of discussions heard throughout the industry in recent years.


[ QUOTE ]
So 1200 hours total time is NO EXPERIENCE to you ...to say I have not paid any dues at all is insulting.


[/ QUOTE ]
First, I never set any limits, nor did I attack your credentials and/or dues. But there is definitely a difference in paying your dues and paying to get past your dues. And to do that insults everyone who has gone before you, and those that built this profession. Do I blame anyone with 700tt from taking a job??.....heck no, would have jumped on it too. But, I would not have been so naive to say that I had the same experience as a 2-3000 hour guy. Nor would I start screaming "how soon til I upgrade?"

Before you ask what dues, here are a few of mine:
6 years of line/ramp service during the hunt for ratings and CFIing.
Fueling aircraft from C152 to B757 (Trained by each contracted airline....incl, Delta, Eastern, Continental, Piedmont)
Airstarts, loading DC-8, 707, and B727 freighters
washing corp aircraft
Dumping the "blue room" in commercial airliners.
Ramp rat at a major hub.
1200 dual given
2 years freight dog (alone + no autopilot, and gasp.....no GPS)
2+ yrs FAR 135 pax charter flying
EiEiO

So, without being toooooo animated. I too am insulted when someone with -1000 tt jumps in an RJ and tells us their dues are paid in full. Trust me, when I look back from 6000+ hours, I didn't know squat at 1200. Kinda like thinking your parents are idiots........until 10 years later and you wake up and say, "......they were right."


Sorry Doug,
I was afraid you were going to think that.....figured we are pretty close to getting kicked in the lav.

 

[derg]

It's a good discussion.

And the standard caveat: This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm just rambling...

Just jealous because I never had any of this type of insight when I was a young neophyte. But looking back, I thought I was the 'bomb diggity' when I crossed the 500 hour mark because my peer group had a lot less.

Then I hit 1000 and thought I had arrived because the other CFI's were around the 500 hour mark.

Then I got hired at a regional with about 1800 or so and thought I was the 'new hotness' because I could apply for my ATP.

I got hired at my current employer with about 3300 and thought I was king of the hill until I found myself surrounded by pilots who had 757/767 type ratings, thousands of hours of KC-135 time, combat experience, etc. But I spent most of my time trying to sponge knowledge off of the highly experienced pilots that I associated with rather than self-justify my own experience level.

Once again, I'm just taking a shot in the dark and these comments aren't particularly targeted at anyone.