Citation Type Rating

element94

element94

Well-Known Member
Hey guys,

I have to complete a few simulator classes to finish up my degree, and the university I go to said they'd allow me to complete a type rating in lieu of AATD time and give me credit. The cost to me, in terms of lab fees and tuition that I'd pay for the courses at the university is approximately equal to what most providers would charge for an initial PIC type rating. Does anyone have any experience with any in-aircraft training providers that would allow me to acquire an unrestricted type rating (no SOE limitation)?

Thanks!
 
Do you have a particular employer that you would like to work for once you graduate/down the road? Airline, 135, flight department etc.

You could pursue a type for the aircraft they fly. I dunno if it would necessarily increase your chances of landing a job right out of school without the minimums but ya never know. It also supplements your resume for your long term goals.
 
SimCom might be the cheaper route to earning a CE500 Type. There are some companies if you look around that offer types done in the actual airplane itself. My first type had an SOE on it and I am sure yours will as well. The SOE is added if you have less than a certain number of hours in Turbine or turboprob aircraft.
 
Simcom the cheapest, CAE next and most expensive FSI. I'm not sure about simcom, but the latter two are 20k+ (525)

FSI will not give you a single pilot type with less than 1,000 TT, and glancing at your profile, it is highly unlikely you meet the requirements to get a PIC type without SOE.
 
I got my CE-500 PIC type at 800 hours, maybe 100 turbo prop, and had no limitations through FSI. For the record, my company paid for it.
 
Odd...After completing my checkride I went through a list of requirements that had to be met to issue the PIC type without SOE limitation. I cannot remember what FAR the list is under, but I was exempt having greater than 500 multi turbine pic. This was at FSI ICT in August of 2010.
 
My type was $30k (525 - CJ3). They aren't cheap... Besides, a type is pretty much completely worthless without time in type. If you're using student loans do whatever is the cheapest that still meets your requirement (even if it's just doing the boring school sim program).
 
Thanks for your responses everyone.

I'm not really looking to get a job out of this, but I think there will be value in terms of broadening my general understanding of turbine operations and the type rating certification process by doing it. I figure if I have to pay almost equivalent lab fees to graduate anyway, it makes sense to spend 10% more out of pocket and get the full type rather than some dual received time.

Perhaps it will be of value down the road if and when I acquire any significant amount of experience...someday I'll learn to be a competent pilot!

Your thoughts and input are appreciated as always.

Tailwinds...
 
I have a friend who just got a CE-500 type/ATP a week ago for $6800 in the airplane. One hour check ride. The airplane owner is a retired airline guy who is also an FAA DPE. He said the airplane was so easy it didn't matter that he didn't have any time in type. My buddy is a regional guy with lots of jet time and check rides under his belt; so it would probably be more challenging for someone with less experience. The examiner is located somewhere in FL. I Don't have any more details at this time. I can get some details if you would like.
 
efly said:
I got my CE-500 PIC type at 800 hours, maybe 100 turbo prop, and had no limitations through FSI. For the record, my company paid for it.
Click to expand...

You should of had an SOE limitation with your flight time. Did you have a previous type or military experience?
 
Well, the SOE is pretty easy to get removed once you do a few hours in the airplane. It's not a big deal if you get one.
 
I had thought about, after eventually getting ATP, that this might be a 'fun' rating to get. Thought I'd seen a place in San Diego offering Citation 525(?) type rating with 10 hours in aircraft. Either they revoked this offer, or I was mistaken, as none seem to offer more than a one hour flight.

Anything you folks might know about this?
 
element94 said:
Thanks for your responses everyone.

I'm not really looking to get a job out of this, but I think there will be value in terms of broadening my general understanding of turbine operations and the type rating certification process by doing it. I figure if I have to pay almost equivalent lab fees to graduate anyway, it makes sense to spend 10% more out of pocket and get the full type rather than some dual received time.

Perhaps it will be of value down the road if and when I acquire any significant amount of experience...someday I'll learn to be a competent pilot!

Your thoughts and input are appreciated as always.

Tailwinds...
Click to expand...
How are your lab fees $25-30k?
 
I think that my CE-500 rating was around $8500 - in the airplane and unrestricted in Southern CA. It was a very quick course - home study, a couple of days of ground, a couple of days in the airplane - and the checkride.
 
§ 61.64 Use of a flight simulator and flight training device.

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(a) Use of a flight simulator or flight training device. If an applicant for a certificate or rating uses a flight simulator or flight training device for training or any portion of the practical test, the flight simulator and flight training device—
(1) Must represent the category, class, and type (if a type rating is applicable) for the rating sought; and
(2) Must be qualified and approved by the Administrator and used in accordance with an approved course of training under part 141 or part 142 of this chapter; or under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter, provided the applicant is a pilot employee of that air carrier operator.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, if an airplane is not used during the practical test for a type rating for a turbojet airplane (except for preflight inspection), an applicant must accomplish the entire practical test in a Level C or higher flight simulator and the applicant must—
(1) Hold a type rating in a turbojet airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought, and that type rating may not contain a supervised operating experience limitation;
(2) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different turbojet airplanes of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought;
(3) Have been appointed by the U.S. Armed Forces as pilot in command in a turbojet airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought;
(4) Have 500 hours of flight time in the same type of airplane for which the type rating is sought; or
(5) Have logged at least 2,000 hours of flight time, of which 500 hours were in turbine-powered airplanes of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought.
(c) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, if an airplane is not used during the practical test for a type rating for a turbo-propeller airplane (except for preflight inspection), an applicant must accomplish the entire practical test in a Level C or higher flight simulator and the applicant must—
(1) Hold a type rating in a turbo-propeller airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought, and that type rating may not contain a supervised operating experience limitation;
(2) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different turbo-propeller airplanes of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought;
(3) Have been appointed by the U.S. Armed Forces as pilot in command in a turbo-propeller airplane of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought;
(4) Have 500 hours of flight time in the same type of airplane for which the type rating is sought; or
(5) Have logged at least 2,000 hours of flight time, of which 500 hours were in turbine-powered airplanes of the same class of airplane for which the type rating is sought.
(d) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, if a helicopter is not used during the practical test for a type rating in a helicopter (except for preflight inspection), an applicant must accomplish the entire practical test in a Level C or higher flight simulator and the applicant must meet one of the following requirements—
(1) Hold a type rating in a helicopter and that type rating may not contain the supervised operating experience limitation;
(2) Have been appointed by the U.S. Armed Forces as pilot in command of a helicopter;
(3) Have 500 hours of flight time in the type of helicopter; or
(4) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different types of helicopters.
(e) Except as provided in paragraph (f) of this section, if a powered-lift is not used during the practical test for a type rating in a powered-lift (except for preflight inspection), an applicant must accomplish the entire practical test in a Level C or higher flight simulator and the applicant must meet one of the following requirements—
(1) Hold a type rating in a powered-lift without a supervised operating experience limitation;
(2) Have been appointed by the U.S. Armed Forces as pilot in command of a powered-lift;
(3) Have 500 hours of flight time in the type of powered-lift for which the rating is sought; or
(4) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different types of powered-lifts.
(f) If the applicant does not meet one of the experience requirements of paragraphs (b)(1) through (5), (c)(1) through (5), (d)(1) through (4) or (e)(1) through (4) of this section, as appropriate to the type rating sought, then—
(1) The applicant must complete the following tasks on the practical test in an aircraft appropriate to category, class, and type for the rating sought: Preflight inspection, normal takeoff, normal instrument landing system approach, missed approach, and normal landing; or
(2) The applicant's pilot certificate will be issued with a limitation that states: “The [name of the additional type rating] is subject to pilot in command limitations,” and the applicant is restricted from serving as pilot in command in an aircraft of that type.
(g) The limitation described under paragraph (f)(2) of this section may be removed from the pilot certificate if the applicant complies with the following—
(1) Performs 25 hours of flight time in an aircraft of the category, class, and type for which the limitation applies under the direct observation of the pilot in command who holds a category, class, and type rating, without limitations, for the aircraft;
(2) Logs each flight and the pilot in command who observed the flight attests in writing to each flight;
(3) Obtains the flight time while performing the duties of pilot in command; and
(4) Presents evidence of the supervised operating experience to any Examiner or FAA Flight Standards District Office to have the limitation removed.
 
(g)(1) I had time in the type prior, it was part 91

edit, you got me wondering about this, went back through my log book, I had just shy of 900 hours, couple hundred glider, but still wondering if thats what happened or if it was an oversight?
 
You dont get an SOE under two circumstances:
1. You do the type ride in the actual airplane
-or-
2. You do the type ride in the simulator but have the minimum PIC experience

We had a long thread on this about a month or two back.
 
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