Chuck Yeager sues Virgin...

cencal83406 said:
My airplane is almost as big as yours, Todd. ALMOST! And yet, here I am, on YEAR 3, making $34.49/hr (and I'm lucky, because that's the higher rate over here).
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Your airplane is a third smaller than mine, so you can't expect the same pay scale. Also, you're operating under a very old contract. With that said, you don't get paid anywhere near what you should, but that's not a B-scale, that's just the result of regional MECs not utilizing pattern bargaining following the Comair strike in '01.

Well, business 101 tells me that if you don't have any money .... you can't pay people anyways. So what's the point of crippling a company from the start.
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Again, you're still assuming that industry-standard wages would "cripple" the company. I urge you to do some research to see just how little it would cost to pay their pilots an industry-standard wage. Don't fall into the management trap of believing that your wages are a big piece of the pie. Virgin America is now operating with positive cash flow. With just one quarter's worth of operating profits (a slow quarter, at that), Virgin America could pay every pilot an industry-standard wage. Still see the justification?
 
Virgin Atlantic pilots are paid at the bottom of the pay scale in the UK - they almost went on strike a few years ago. Regardless you can't use someone's name without their permission.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Again, you're still assuming that industry-standard wages would "cripple" the company. I urge you to do some research to see just how little it would cost to pay their pilots an industry-standard wage. Don't fall into the management trap of believing that your wages are a big piece of the pie. Virgin America is now operating with positive cash flow. With just one quarter's worth of operating profits (a slow quarter, at that), Virgin America could pay every pilot an industry-standard wage. Still see the justification?
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I'm not "assuming" anything. I'm merely thinking that expecting to be paid top of the line out of the box is false logic. Once the company starts to prove it can profit, then yes, it's time to raise the rates.

Perhaps a startup can do the honorable thing and write up a pilot contract (with or without a union to start) that says, "hey, we're new, so we're not sure if we're even going to be able to pay anyone, but once we post any sort of profit, the wages increase and will be at least industry average by x time"....
 
What you've stated is totally asinine. I don't even know where to begin.

You stated that the EMB175 pays what a "small jet" pays.

That thing grosses at 86,000 pounds. Guess what the DC-9-10 grossed at? 89,000 pounds.

Not a B-scale my butt. It is...and it is a system we created. It is up to YOU as union leadership to not buy into the idiocy and politics and do what is right for this profession.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
You stated that the EMB175 pays what a "small jet" pays.

That thing grosses at 86,000 pounds. Guess what the DC-9-10 grossed at? 89,000 pounds.
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I know what you mean, but we've fallen a long way from NWA DC-9-10 wages. Regionals across the country operate airplanes with 70-86 seats within a certain range, and Compass is right in that range. I'm not saying it's a decent range, if that's what you think, I'm merely saying that nowadays, the rates that Compass gets are right in line, and they were from the very first day of operations.

Not a B-scale my butt. It is...and it is a system we created.
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Sorry, but I don't think "b-scale" is the proper terminology. We've had b-scales in this industry, and as you know, they were a far different animal. Traditional b-scales had pilots on the very same seniority list being treated as second class citizens in the very same equipment. That's a far cry from what goes on with the regionals today.

Now, is it a crappy system? Yes. Did we create it? Yes. Do we fix it by apologizing for Virgin America's crappy wages? Of course not. In fact, the low wages of start-ups only hinder the ability of regional MECs to achieve better wages. How can you argue for higher wages in a CRJ900 when there are guys at Allegient flying in the left seat of an MD-82 for less?

It is up to YOU as union leadership to not buy into the idiocy and politics and do what is right for this profession.
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I am. Amazingly, with our crappy contract, we have some of the best seat and ASM restrictions in the industry now, and we're looking to improve them. I think the people you need to talk to are your reps at SouthernJets, not me. I'm not the one signing away 10 more seats every few years.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I know what you mean, but we've fallen a long way from NWA DC-9-10 wages. Regionals across the country operate airplanes with 70-86 seats within a certain range, and Compass is right in that range. I'm not saying it's a decent range, if that's what you think, I'm merely saying that nowadays, the rates that Compass gets are right in line, and they were from the very first day of operations.



Sorry, but I don't think "b-scale" is the proper terminology. We've had b-scales in this industry, and as you know, they were a far different animal. Traditional b-scales had pilots on the very same seniority list being treated as second class citizens in the very same equipment. That's a far cry from what goes on with the regionals today.

Now, is it a crappy system? Yes. Did we create it? Yes. Do we fix it by apologizing for Virgin America's crappy wages? Of course not. In fact, the low wages of start-ups only hinder the ability of regional MECs to achieve better wages. How can you argue for higher wages in a CRJ900 when there are guys at Allegient flying in the left seat of an MD-82 for less?



I am. Amazingly, with our crappy contract, we have some of the best seat and ASM restrictions in the industry now, and we're looking to improve them. I think the people you need to talk to are your reps at SouthernJets, not me. I'm not the one signing away 10 more seats every few years.
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We've fallen, but that doesn't mean you should go and justify those wages. That is what really ticks me off.

The reason I am really upset with what you wrote is because you have now reverted to the exact same language and logic as our MEC. I expected better... but you have now officially joined the borg. I hope you enjoy giving seats away.

Also, our MEC knows we will burn this place to the ground on one more seat. The latest LEC leadership elected is a full changeout of the previous group... there is a lot of change going on at DAL.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
We've fallen, but that doesn't mean you should go and justify those wages. That is what really ticks me off.
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Go back and read what I said. I specifically said that I think the pilots flying those planes deserve a lot more. They aren't justifiable, they merely are what they are. We should try our best to bring them up.

The reason I am really upset with what you wrote, is because you have now reverted to the exact same language as them. I expected better... but you have now officially joined the borg. I hope you enjoy giving seats away.
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Apparently you really don't know me if you think there's the slightest chance in hell that I'd ever agree to give away any seats.
 
From the passenger side I love Virgin their service is better than any airline in the US.....

CJ is probably running out of money
 
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