Chuck Yeager sues Virgin...

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buellrider

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Aviator Chuck Yeager Sues Virgin Over Use of His Name in Ad

By Karen Gullo
Dec. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Retired Air Force Brigadier General Charles “Chuck” Yeager, the pilot who first broke the speed of sound, sued Virgin America Inc., claiming the airline used his name in an advertisement for a new on-board wireless Internet service without his permission.
The company issued a press release that said, “Not unlike Buzz Aldrin or Chuck Yeager, you have the opportunity to be part of a monumental moment in air travel,” according to a complaint filed yesterday in state court in San Francisco.
“At no time did General Yeager give his permission to defendants,” Yeager’s lawyer said in the suit. Yeager, 86, rarely if ever permits his name or image to be used by private companies or to be associated with commercial products or services in the aviation industry, according to the lawsuit.
Yeager is seeking a court order barring the company from using his name and awarding him profits earned by Virgin from using his name as well as punitive damages.
Yeager was a World War II fighter pilot who in 1947 became the first human to fly faster than the speed of sound, which is 761 miles an hour at sea level. An Air Force test pilot, he was profiled in the 1979 Tom Wolfe book “The Right Stuff,” which was later made into a movie. Former astronaut Edwin “Buzz” Aldrin walked on the moon as a member of the Apollo 11 crew.
A message left on San Francisco-based Virgin America’s media line wasn’t immediately returned.
Virgin America is the low-fare airline partly owned by U.K. billionaire Richard Branson.
The case is Yeager v. Virgin America, CGC-09-495611, Superior Court of California (San Francisco).
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Take 'em to the cleaners, Chuck!
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Naw man, we want more bransons, even though he's not union, he still pays his pilots more than the regionals, and has the balls to invest in something like SpaceShipOne. Also, I've heard good things about working there, so other than the lounge singer uniform, it doesn't seem that bad.
 
ppragman said:
Naw man, we want more bransons, even though he's not union, he still pays his pilots more than the regionals, and has the balls to invest in something like SpaceShipOne. Also, I've heard good things about working there, so other than the lounge singer uniform, it doesn't seem that bad.
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You're kidding, right?

Virgin American pay scales:

pay_virgin2007.gif


Disgraceful. Not to mention that they use "merit based" upgrades instead of seniority. :rolleyes:
 
I'll ask this question here as well:

Scenario: Startup airline

Is it realistic to demand industry leading or even industry average compensation when there is not even profit? Or is this something that has to come in time?
 
seniority as a basis for promotion?

Competency surely?

As Branson didn't pay a penny in the price fixing scandal with BA he can afford to lose some to Chuck...

Alex.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Compass.
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Ha, no regional contract is industry leading. You're kidding yourself. Virgin America is a big daddy airline.

As I see it, all pilots had to "teethe" with their airlines before the airline was able to provide industry standard.

Gold standard - SWA? Well, they did undercut the industry until the industry came back down to them
Fedex? I've read/heard many a story of the pay rates at early Fedex...

So.... two "industry leading airlines" in terms of pay, and yet, they did not start that way.

Once an airline is profitable, I'm right there with you, however, I find it perfectly normal that start ups just DON'T pay as well. If you want to be a part of the growing process, it's up to you....

My old company was a start up.... it's now been in business 10 years and owns 8 jet aircraft.... it started with a 414 lease acquired through selling a majority stake in the company...
 
cencal83406 said:
Ha, no regional contract is industry leading. You're kidding yourself.
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Sure it is. You compare regionals to regionals, and majors to majors. Compass had a great contract right out of the box compared to similar airlines. And why? Because a union negotiated it. Pilots at Virgin should vote in a union to bring their wages up to industry standards.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sure it is. You compare regionals to regionals, and majors to majors. Compass had a great contract right out of the box compared to similar airlines. And why? Because a union negotiated it. Pilots at Virgin should vote in a union to bring their wages up to industry standards.
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I don't support a B-scale system.
 
cencal83406 said:
I don't support a B-scale system.
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I don't think that's what we have, but isn't what you're advocating truly a B-scale system? Pilots at newer airlines get stuck on a B-scale, even though they usually have very high qualifications due to insurance and FAA demands? Doesn't seem fair to me. They do the same job as you and I. They don't deserve to be paid less.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I don't think that's what we have, but isn't what you're advocating truly a B-scale system? Pilots at newer airlines get stuck on a B-scale, even though they usually have very high qualifications due to insurance and FAA demands? Doesn't seem fair to me. They do the same job as you and I. They don't deserve to be paid less.
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A regional is a true B-scale. Look at the collective negotiating power of the group.... we're still paid less than $30/hr starting, across the board.

Having an airline start up is different - from a business standpoint, I don't believe it is possible to provide your employees a benefits package equal to a long established airline. That's pretty unreasonable to ask for. Also, in regards to Compass - did they not have NWA bucks providing start up capital etc etc.
 
cencal83406 said:
A regional is a true B-scale.
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Not really. Regionals fly smaller airplanes, so they get paid less. That's not a B-scale.

Having an airline start up is different - from a business standpoint, I don't believe it is possible to provide your employees a benefits package equal to a long established airline.
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You should spend some time looking at just how little pilot payroll contributes to the cost structure of the airline. A startup airline will not sink or swim based on whether they pay a captain $140/hr instead of $100/hr. It's just an excuse.

Also, in regards to Compass - did they not have NWA bucks providing start up capital etc etc.
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NWA was in bankruptcy, so "NWA bucks" weren't exactly plentiful. But, if you don't like the Compass example, use GoJet. That was an alter-ego airline that still provided industry-standard wages. Granted, they were just trying to keep ALPA off the property, but it was industry-standard wages none the less.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Not really. Regionals fly smaller airplanes, so they get paid less. That's not a B-scale.
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My airplane is almost as big as yours, Todd. ALMOST! And yet, here I am, on YEAR 3, making $34.49/hr (and I'm lucky, because that's the higher rate over here).

You should spend some time looking at just how little pilot payroll contributes to the cost structure of the airline. A startup airline will not sink or swim based on whether they pay a captain $140/hr instead of $100/hr. It's just an excuse.
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Well, business 101 tells me that if you don't have any money .... you can't pay people anyways. So what's the point of crippling a company from the start. I can think of an example in the computer world - I don't think I'd be able to afford "$100,000/yr" programmers at the start of an operation, so I'd offer up a job with a certain required skillset at say, $40,000.... if someone wanted to work for me, great, we'll build the company, and because they're part of the unlucky few in the growing pains stage, they would be rewarded - by a higher salary and potentially some stock options. Now of course, under collective bargaining, this isn't always possible, but as they do different pension plans based on DOH, I could see some sort of "reward" for the initial cadre.

NWA was in bankruptcy, so "NWA bucks" weren't exactly plentiful. But, if you don't like the Compass example, use GoJet. That was an alter-ego airline that still provided industry-standard wages. Granted, they were just trying to keep ALPA off the property, but it was industry-standard wages none the less.
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Each of your examples has a company that had some sort of financial foothold (well, even in bankruptcy they certainly had assets they could have liquidated).

If I go out tomorrow, secure financing on an aircraft, get a certificate, and routes, I certainly don't want to increase my expenses at the outset "just because" it's not a good excuse. I don't advocate, over the long run, providing compensation that is below that of the rest of the group. In fact, I would envision that if my wages weren't commensurate, I'd have trouble keeping employees. That's no bueno. So at some point, I'm going to have to make sure my balance sheet can handle paying industry standard/leading. It would be a GOAL.
 
Anyway, getting back on the original topic. If Yeager wasn't actually such a nozzle I might care about him getting money for them using his name. He may have been lucky enough to be the one who broke the sound barrier first but that doesn't make him any less of a pompous ass. We suffered through one of his "I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread" speeches at USAFA.
 
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