Chicago Center Fire

Boyington said:
I just talked to a buddy that said that Chicago Center controllers are being relocated to various approach control facilities around the area, and are going to handle "center" from various outstations. Looking at flight aware for tonight, looks like lots of big planes are being kept below 18,000' and handed from approach to approach.

Anyone have any idea how long this is expected to last?
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Memphis center tonight said 30-40 days.
 
The guy did not just set a fire but also went in the computers and messed up radar lines and whatnot. Pretty bad and it's going to take awhile to fix.
 
Zondaracer said:
The guy did not just set a fire but also went in the computers and messed up radar lines and whatnot. Pretty bad and it's going to take awhile to fix.
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Guess this is another government employee/contractor going postal.
 
Just one more example from a very, very long list on why consolidation of facilities and contracting/privatizing government operations vital to national defense is just stupid, stupid, stupid.

And, yet, it won't stop Robert Poole and the consolidators from still pushing.
 
z987k said:
The reason they hit the mountains was not because they departed VFR.
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fholbert said:
Yes it was. Both came out of KSDM, Brown Field.
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No, the reason they ran into a mountain was because they failed to follow the Reg with regards to VFR operations; had nothing to do with the type of departure or flight plan they were on!

I do this all the time (Part 91 and also have under 135). I think the issue facing @Corporate Pilot is that most likely an IFR clearance had already been received. Were it not, I think a VFR departure, picking up IFR enroute would work.
 
I've heard it could be done for at least a month.

ATC is saying in their regular operations plan that the investigation is still underway and that damage assessment and repair can't begin until that's complete.

Surrounding centers are beginning to cover parts of the airspace.
 
A friend of mine just started working at Chicago Center. He said first thing he noticed on his first day was the appearance of suicide awareness signs around the work place which they didn't have posted at his previous facility.
 
ppragman said:
Rule #1: Do not impact the terrain.

Rule #2: You do not talk about Fight Club.

But seriously, there's no reason to hit a mountain in an airplane with TAWS-B or better. None. If you do, you either:

Had it inhibited (which is kind of stupid)

Didn't listen to it (which is kind of hard)

Went beyond the point of no return (which is what people who are inexperienced or overly aggressive do).
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I believe it happened before terrain avoidance was required and they probably did not have it. I am old enough to remember flying jets that did not have it.
 
Corporate Pilot said:
I believe it happened before terrain avoidance was required and they probably did not have it. I am old enough to remember flying jets that did not have it.
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There's still no reason to run into mountains, yes, it could happen to anyone, but even without TAWS-B, or EGPWS, or whatever, there's no reason to EVER hit a mountain. I say this and I've flown in conditions highly conducive to CFIT through much of my career (and could have been a statistic once - but that's a story for over beers). A little situational awareness goes a long way, and the ability/lack of ego/smarts to say, "Alright, it's time I just climb, point down hill, and call ATC for help - regardless of the consequences." I'd rather have a 90-day suspension than be imbedded in a mountain somewhere.

The SECOND - no strike that, the INSTANT that the question, "wait, where the hell am I?" Flashes in your head, you cram and climb. At least that's the way I've been trained.
 
ppragman said:
There's still no reason to run into mountains, yes, it could happen to anyone, but even without TAWS-B, or EGPWS, or whatever, there's no reason to EVER hit a mountain. I say this and I've flown in conditions highly conducive to CFIT through much of my career (and could have been a statistic once - but that's a story for over beers). A little situational awareness goes a long way, and the ability/lack of ego/smarts to say, "Alright, it's time I just climb, point down hill, and call ATC for help - regardless of the consequences." I'd rather have a 90-day suspension than be imbedded in a mountain somewhere.

The SECOND - no strike that, the INSTANT that the question, "wait, where the hell am I?" Flashes in your head, you cram and climb. At least that's the way I've been trained.
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Naw dude, you keep getting lower and lower so you can see something, duh.
 
Roger Roger said:
Naw dude, you keep getting lower and lower so you can see something, duh.
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Have had to do just that once upon a time. With a min altitude I'd go down to if I didn't break out, of course. But even then, there's no guarantees. Definitely disconcerting of a feeling doing it.
 
MikeD said:
Have had to do just that once upon a time. With a min altitude I'd go down to if I didn't break out, of course. But even then, there's no guarantees. Definitely disconcerting of a feeling doing it.
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Yeah, I've read your story, but for one there were lives at stake and two you had a plan. What gets people is shooting from the hip and desperately trying to maintain visual contact just so they can get tripacks of pop to the village so the natives can get diabetes. With any sort of modern equipment if you get in a bind it's much much safer to climb IMC while heading for lower terrain (around here that means water). Which is what @ppragman was getting at. Shoot, in reality it would be much safer to conduct the whole flight as an IFR flight even if your routes, waypoints, and MEAs are homemade. The regs obviously don't allow for that though.
 
Roger Roger said:
Yeah, I've read your story, but for one there were lives at stake and two you had a plan. What gets people is shooting from the hip and desperately trying to maintain visual contact just so they can get tripacks of pop to the village so the natives can get diabetes. With any sort of modern equipment if you get in a bind it's much much safer to climb IMC while heading for lower terrain (around here that means water). Which is what @ppragman was getting at. Shoot, in reality it would be much safer to conduct the whole flight as an IFR flight even if your routes, waypoints, and MEAs are homemade. The regs obviously don't allow for that though.
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Unfortunately, that's one of those accident factors that will continue to bite guys and there will be more accidents to come. Another one of those "not new ways to crash planes" things.
 
Roger Roger said:
Yeah, I've read your story, but for one there were lives at stake and two you had a plan. What gets people is shooting from the hip and desperately trying to maintain visual contact just so they can get tripacks of pop to the village so the natives can get diabetes. With any sort of modern equipment if you get in a bind it's much much safer to climb IMC while heading for lower terrain (around here that means water). Which is what @ppragman was getting at. Shoot, in reality it would be much safer to conduct the whole flight as an IFR flight even if your routes, waypoints, and MEAs are homemade. The regs obviously don't allow for that though.
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Yep. The feds haven't kept up with technology in this regard yet. It'd be a lot safer if there was a fed who could go around and bless home made routes up North provided they were flown on a clear day and didn't give anyone any terrain alerts, rather than have guys try to figure it out with a handheld garmin product at 100 to 500' AGL in and out of the goo because, by God, Kasigluk needs groceries.
 
ppragman said:
There's still no reason to run into mountains, yes, it could happen to anyone, but even without TAWS-B, or EGPWS, or whatever, there's no reason to EVER hit a mountain. I say this and I've flown in conditions highly conducive to CFIT through much of my career (and could have been a statistic once - but that's a story for over beers). A little situational awareness goes a long way, and the ability/lack of ego/smarts to say, "Alright, it's time I just climb, point down hill, and call ATC for help - regardless of the consequences." I'd rather have a 90-day suspension than be imbedded in a mountain somewhere.

The SECOND - no strike that, the INSTANT that the question, "wait, where the hell am I?" Flashes in your head, you cram and climb. At least that's the way I've been trained.
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I agree and because of accidents like this is why we now have terrain warning in airplanes. You should still have situational awareness.
 
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