Cherokee's Delta Rants from "Alaska Hawaiian Merger"

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You don’t need to explain, we all read the breadth of ramblings over the years that paint a picture of how the company and it’s employees live rent-free in your head.

And they do “guarantee” family seating if your fare category allows for seat selection at the time of booking, it’s pretty clear at time of booking.

No need to be dense , it’s obviously referring to Basic Economy. Delta does not guarantee family seating. Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier, United, American guarantee it with a BE ticket. I booked last month an AA ticket for January as BE tickets. They’ve already gotten 4 seats assigned in a row.


You don’t need to defend your shop. It’s okay to admit they just don’t for BE tickets while literally everyone else does. Except Spirit.

 

[derg]

No need to be dense , it’s obviously referring to Basic Economy. Delta does not guarantee family seating. Alaska, JetBlue, Frontier, United, American guarantee it with a BE ticket. I booked last month an AA ticket for January as BE tickets. They’ve already gotten 4 seats assigned in a row.


You don’t need to defend your shop. It’s okay to admit they just don’t for BE tickets while literally everyone else does. Except Spirit.

BASIC ECONOMY DOES NOT ALLOW FOR SEAT SELECTION.

It literally tells you three different times before it allows you to select that fare.

It’s generally middle seats and less-than-prime locations to enjoy a fare savings. One category up allows for seat selection.

This is an issue with your reading comprehension.

“I ordered a 6 ounce sirloin and why didn’t you deliver me a bone-in ‘tomahawk’ Delmonico?!”

 

[MFT1Air]

I should have been paying more attention to the impact of this while back, but I was focused elsewhere. Interesting.

Does Hawaiian Air fly to Guam? I see a more westward expansion for the Hawaiiian side internationally speaking while Alaska merges into Canada airspace. <follow the money>

On the other side, Bahamian and Carribean airlines are going where? East Coast? United, American. . .nevermind. Covered.

 

[MFT1Air]

Why didn't Delta pop up first and foremost? Oops.

<I don't know. <might not have been all that significant to me, maybe? IDK>

Naw, it's the company I'm presently entertaining.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

BASIC ECONOMY DOES NOT ALLOW FOR SEAT SELECTION.

It literally tells you three different times before it allows you to select that fare.

It’s generally middle seats and less-than-prime locations to enjoy a fare savings. One category up allows for seat selection.

This is an issue with your reading comprehension.

“I ordered a 6 ounce sirloin and why didn’t you deliver me a bone-in ‘tomahawk’ Delmonico?!”

Dense again?

Let me repeat this so even a simpleton could follow.

“BASIC ECONOMY DOES NOT ALLOW FOR SEAT SELECTION.”


Correct. It does not. BE does not allow for seat selection.

But you see, not all airlines are like Delta. A while ago there was a push for airline traveler rights. One of the positives to come from it was airlines voluntarily agreeing to guarantee family seating even on BE fares.


here’s how it works at American, United, JetBlue, Frontier.


Buy BE ticket


Do NOT pay for any seat.

Do NOT select any seat.


LEAVE IT ALONE.


So at this point in the journey, all is the same as Delta. A seat purchased for an adult and kid as a BE fare.

NO seat selected or seat selection paid for.



Then, sometime later, the AI algorithms recognize a child booking with an adult. Now AUTOMATICALLY, the system ASSIGNS seats so that the child is next to the adult.

You login, and next thing you know you magically get assigned seats 20A, 20B.



Delta COULD do this. They choose NOT to.


You know the DOT has a website dedicated to this very subject. Right? RIGHT?

https://www.transportation.gov/resources/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/airline-family-seating-commitments-dashboard

Delta does not commit to…

 

[derg]

You clearly understand what I’m saying but for some spicy reason, you’re just begging for more of my attention by being obtuse or honestly have poor reading comprehension.

Hit me up on Cameo, I’ll give you something to put on replay for those… quiet times.

 

[///AMG]

The big fights were on issues around the fence, Richman can describe it from his perspective since he was working on it from the North side, but the big fight seemed to be about ‘super premium widebody flying’ and whether or not the 767 was truly a widebody or not because the rates were blended with the 757.

Again, super simplified version.

Is this where you got the split categories of 7ER and the 767-400?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You clearly understand what I’m saying but for some spicy reason, you’re just begging for more of my attention by being obtuse or honestly have poor reading comprehension.

Hit me up on Cameo, I’ll give you something to put on replay for those… quiet times.

No. I think you understand what I said, but chose to go the other way.

It’s called guaranteed family seating for Basic Economy fares. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t let you pick seats. The guarantee is, you just buy a BE ticket, and the airline will seat you together.


Three major airlines do not offer this free guarantee for BE fares:

Spirit

Allegiant

DELTA

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Schools out December, time to book that LA-DTW ticket.


And yes, this Delta lowest price is a BE fare at $649. BRO


For 4 people. $480 plus seats and bags. Or $2596 plus seats and bags?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I mean, I get why Spirit is bankrupt. $120 is still kinda low.


But I’m tryna’ save jobs here, not pad your Profit Share.

Spirit it is.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

You clearly understand what I’m saying but for some spicy reason, you’re just begging for more of my attention by being obtuse or honestly have poor reading comprehension.

Hit me up on Cameo, I’ll give you something to put on replay for those… quiet times.

We seem to be using similar vernacular to describe the problem....

 

[Roger Roger]

Yeah, I couldn’t imagine being a local and growing with the brand and style of flying over my career to spend the rest of my career in some land war with another pilot group and a new callsign. That goes from either angle.

I don’t wish mergers on even my worst enemies, and mine was an ultimately positive one.

I’ve had a couple non-aviation peeps axe me what I think of the merger. My answer always starts with “mergers always benefit the shareholders and the C-suite first and foremost. Customers and employees at best usually come out even”

 

[derg]

Is this where you got the split categories of 7ER and the 767-400?

Yes.

Once upon a time, the categories were:

767 - 757, 767 domestic-only
7ER - 767 international
764 - 767-400 domestic only
765 - 767-400 international only

Pay rates were:

757
767
767-400

Eventually, the 767 and 7ER were morphed into a single category with separate pay rates between the 767 and 757.
The 764 and 765 categories were blended as well but still a separate category from the 767/757

So when we had the merger, since the 767/757 were a single pay rate and single category, unlike our (from a DL perspective) "stepbrothers" flew the 757 as an international narrowbody, there was push to consider the 767/757 as a narrowbody category for seniority list integration purposes. So even if the arbitrator agreed that the 767 category as a widebody, the North negotiations commitee wanted to consider the 747 as a 'super premium' widebody category.

Of course, there are other perspectives on it and I've heavily simplified the SLI considerations and those, ONLY THOSE IN THE ACTUAL KNOW, are free to add some clarity and specificity to it.

 

[derg]

I’ve had a couple non-aviation peeps axe me what I think of the merger. My answer always starts with “mergers always benefit the shareholders and the C-suite first and foremost. Customers and employees at best usually come out even”

Not only the healthiest way to see it, it's also the honest truth. It doesn't involve or even take into consideration the employees.

If you think the board wouldn't ask for the fealty of the gate agents, you bet your ass they don't give a poop about the pilots either. We're well-paid, considered leaders, but so are our ramp supervisors.

 

[Roger Roger]

Not having done this before, I have no idea what “normal” is, or if there is such a thing as normal, but it sure feels like JCBA progress has stalled. The most recent NC updates show practically every important section (scheduling, pay rates, retirement, etc) still in progress and hints that the company seems to be in a very different ballpark from what the NC wants. Feels very different from when negotiations started and the union was upbeat about the company having decision makers at the table. And of course the company is throwing more fun at us with shuffling bases around in the middle of it.

 

[Roger Roger]

Yeah we are buying JetBlue, you didn’t hear?

Growth by acquisition, you and I will be junior for decades!!!

The rumor that won’t die. Of course DM swore up and down that SAN wasn’t happening either and now that seems pretty locked in so

 

[ASpilot2be]

Yes.

Once upon a time, the categories were:

767 - 757, 767 domestic-only
7ER - 767 international
764 - 767-400 domestic only
765 - 767-400 international only

Pay rates were:

757
767
767-400

Eventually, the 767 and 7ER were morphed into a single category with separate pay rates between the 767 and 757.
The 764 and 765 categories were blended as well but still a separate category from the 767/757

So when we had the merger, since the 767/757 were a single pay rate and single category, unlike our (from a DL perspective) "stepbrothers" flew the 757 as an international narrowbody, there was push to consider the 767/757 as a narrowbody category for seniority list integration purposes. So even if the arbitrator agreed that the 767 category as a widebody, the North negotiations commitee wanted to consider the 747 as a 'super premium' widebody category.

Of course, there are other perspectives on it and I've heavily simplified the SLI considerations and those, ONLY THOSE IN THE ACTUAL KNOW, are free to add some clarity and specificity to it.

I feel this post triggering a certain Wookie.

 

[derg]

Schools out December, time to book that LA-DTW ticket.


And yes, this Delta lowest price is a BE fare at $649. BRO


For 4 people. $480 plus seats and bags. Or $2596 plus seats and bags?



View attachment 86429

*sigh*

There's a 'line out of the door' for those seats which is why the price is high. A vast majority of Delta's reservations are done through the application because of brand loyalty. The money is made because people love the product and really don't care what the competition is doing on a domestic city pair. I'd pay 30% more for a non-stop from PHX to ANC on DL, if offered, during cruise season because I know the product, I've got plenty of discretionary income to match the product to my expectations and ehh... I kinda got to say that your first class product is about on-par with Comfort-Plus on Delta and I generally buy tickets First Class or Comfort-Plus. I like meals, cocktails, comfort and early boarding.

Yes, I'm bougie. I'm not going to lie and pretend I'm not financially fortunate after almost 30 years in the airline business for your comfort.


Delta is a premium brand with massive brand loyalty. The people buying the tickets couldn't give less of a poop about what Spirit is charging. You're a capitalist, aren't you?

I'm also a frequent flyer because I enjoy the product and occasionally dabble with Southwest as well because short-haul, their non-stop product in the less than 120 minute category can't be matched. But if the ticket is "too expensive" on Delta, I'm probably not going. That's just the honest truth.

I'm going to bold this for your understanding: in 2025, 60% of all industry profits were earned by Delta. Why in the world would they match Spirit's fares?

 

[derg]

I feel this post triggering a certain Wookie.

That's alright. I love the Wookiee and we're overdue for a chat!

 

[ShortField]

Not having done this before, I have no idea what “normal” is, or if there is such a thing as normal, but it sure feels like JCBA progress has stalled. The most recent NC updates show practically every important section (scheduling, pay rates, retirement, etc) still in progress and hints that the company seems to be in a very different ballpark from what the NC wants. Feels very different from when negotiations started and the union was upbeat about the company having decision makers at the table. And of course the company is throwing more fun at us with shuffling bases around in the middle of it.

Meh. In one of the comms it was mentioned that there wouldn’t be any meetings for a while so management could focus on SOC. Also, I think the outstanding sections are all intertwined to a certain degree, and as such can’t be closed out one by one. Each affects the other.