Challenger crashed onto highway in Naples FL

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I'm going to question this video, so the fuel shutoffs (they're red) get lifted to shut the engines down? It seems counterintuitive and would be opposite of any fuel related control on the pedestal I've ever seen in a small jet. But as I've said I'm not very familiar with the 600 series Challlengers. Educate me.

Edit: I paused the video at the very end when some email or text from someone to someone is displayed, to try and decipher it is a fools errand, no type listed, no model listed and it has nothing to do with fuel cutoff switches. I suspect it's just clickbait, but I could be wrong.

CRJ-200 was like that. Red levers similar to this, and best IIRC, they shut off the same way.

 

[///AMG]

I think the problem comes, when people see “APU-Off” before takeoff, that they read it as a must-do, rather than an option or reminder. Especially with some of the pilots I’ve flown with on one particular airframe, who are hardcore about not using the APU in the air. That’s a story in itself.

In my secondary (or is it primary) airframe, running the APU in the air, and specifically past 10,000 ft, will 100% of the time result in a full automatic bleed air shutdown, no mask oxygen, no pressurization, and a lot of bad things happening all at once. Maybe they all flew F/A-18's too?

That said, our "APU" is for engine starting only. We don't have "packs" that we have control over, can't do things like power the bus off the APU, and can't do any of the weird overhead panel • you can do with an APU on the 73. It is there for only one reason, and that is to start engines on the ground.

 

[Beep]

A comforting touch. Sometimes, a silent cockpit is too silent.

I believe the technical term is “ Boberting, or to Bobert someone “

 

[SrFnFly227]

In that scenario, what is the FO reaching for where the human arm acts as the lever that allows the cutoff switches to activate?

Right Seat reaching to arm the thrust reversers. Same scenario played the other direction would be the Left Seat reaching for the flaps.

I'm going to question this video, so the fuel shutoffs (they're red) get lifted to shut the engines down? It seems counterintuitive and would be opposite of any fuel related control on the pedestal I've ever seen in a small jet. But as I've said I'm not very familiar with the 600 series Challlengers. Educate me.

Edit: I paused the video at the very end when some email or text from someone to someone is displayed, to try and decipher it is a fools errand, no type listed, no model listed and it has nothing to do with fuel cutoff switches. I suspect it's just clickbait, but I could be wrong.

The red levers aren't cutting the power, they are allowing the levers to move past idle. Pull back to idle and then lift the red levers and pull back further to cutoff. Every Challenger 601/604/605/650 and the RJ 200 work the same way. I can't comment on the original 600 since it had different engines. Thrust levers may have been different.



That video (and one showing the left seat reaching for the flaps allowing the same thing) has drawn a lot of "that's a terrible design" comments. There are well over 1000 600 series Challengers flying and how many RJs? Yet this isn't a widespread issue. My arm never would have been in that position (either from the left or the right). If that's how this accident played out, it was an unlucky one off.

 

[luke3]

I've always been a fan of doing what you need to do with the throttles then taking your hand off when you call for something to be actuated cross cockpit. Between this, and in the 757/767 the risk of inadvertent TOGA activation or going past Flaps 25 to 30 and in the "oh •" reaction putting them back and self inducing a TE Flaps Disagree, nothing good comes from reaching under

 

[knot4u]

Right Seat reaching to arm the thrust reversers. Same scenario played the other direction would be the Left Seat reaching for the flaps.


The red levers aren't cutting the power, they are allowing the levers to move past idle. Pull back to idle and then lift the red levers and pull back further to cutoff. Every Challenger 601/604/605/650 and the RJ 200 work the same way. I can't comment on the original 600 since it had different engines. Thrust levers may have been different.



That video (and one showing the left seat reaching for the flaps allowing the same thing) has drawn a lot of "that's a terrible design" comments. There are well over 1000 600 series Challengers flying and how many RJs? Yet this isn't a widespread issue. My arm never would have been in that position (either from the left or the right). If that's how this accident played out, it was an unlucky one off.

Thanks for the explanation regarding the "switches". So they are mechanical levers that actually allow the the throttles to get to idle cut-off, just like the little knobs on the sides of the earlier Lear throttles. I did not know that and that is why I frequent this site, most of the time I learn something.

 

[BobDDuck]

Thanks for the explanation regarding the "switches". So they are mechanical levers that actually allow the the throttles to get to idle cut-off, just like the little knobs on the sides of the earlier Lear throttles. I did not know that and that is why I frequent this site, most of the time I learn something.

They literally just prevent full backwards travel of the throttles into cut off, and likewise, once there, prevent accidental forward movement out of cut off when the engines are shut down. Over time the metal wears down though, it although not common, it was possible to have the stop point fail. I always was very careful in going to idle thrust in case pulling the throttles back all the way slipped into cut off instead of idle.

Side note... after 7 years of flying an Airbus it feels so weird to type throttle and not thrust lever.

 

[Roger Roger]

Unlikely though it seems I can’t really see another circumstance that takes out both engines at the exact same time. Even running it out of fuel, you almost never hear about both engines quitting at the exact same time.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That was a serious inferno. I know there’s been comments that even unuseable fuel can create a fireball but that dash cam video shows a raging fireball. If I had to guess, this accidental shutdown seems far more likely.

 

[form810]

Was just reading it and came here to post. Seems like a mystery. Confirmation that the FA saved herself and the pax.

Nothing very explicatory there.

And to think that quite often, around here, I'm the one who gets blamed for using too many words while not saying anything. Oh, the horror!