CFI Ride DOES Count as Flight Review

MidlifeFlyer

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Most of you know of the "disconnect" in 61.56, the flight review rule. Under the regulatory language and FAA Chief Counsel interpretations, a CFI Practical Test did not count as a flight review replacement.

As of September 15, that is no longer the case. In a Final Rule published in the Federal Register that day - 61.56 (d) was amended to read:

==============================
(d) A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this section, passed any of the following need not accomplish the flight review required by this section:

(1) A pilot proficiency check or practical test conducted by an examiner, an approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate, rating, or operating privilege.

(2) A practical test conducted by an examiner for the issuance of a flight instructor certificate, an additional rating on a flight instructor certificate, renewal of a flight instructor certificate, or reinstatement of a flight instructor certificate. * * *
==============================

You can read the Rule (which covers some other item as well) here: http://goo.gl/fd4ges
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
As of September 15, that is no longer the case. In a Final Rule published in the Federal Register that day - 61.56 (d) was amended to read:

(2) A practical test conducted by an examiner for the issuance of a flight instructor certificate, an additional rating on a flight instructor certificate, renewal of a flight instructor certificate, or reinstatement of a flight instructor certificate.
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Holy crap! An update that actually makes sense!

And just in time for my CFII check ride in two weeks and my flight review that is due in November! Whooopeeee!

* Actually the guy doing my prep was going to sign me off for a flight review as part of the prep work, so its not like it really mattered, but... still cool!
 
rframe said:
Holy crap! An update that actually makes sense!

And just in time for my CFII check ride in two weeks and my flight review that is due in November! Whooopeeee!

* Actually the guy doing my prep was going to sign me off for a flight review as part of the prep work, so its not like it really mattered, but... still cool!
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I'm in your situation as well, except my FR is due in Dec. and my CFI renewal is due in Jan. I hope to avoid having to do both by taking my CFII sooner rather than later.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
So as long as I keep renewing my CFI, I never need another Flight Review now?
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If I comprehend it right, renewal only counts as a Flight Review if you did a practical test. Online or in person renewal programs are not applicable. Somebody please correct me on this if I am wrong....
 
A150K said:
I'm in your situation as well, except my FR is due in Dec. and my CFI renewal is due in Jan. I hope to avoid having to do both by taking my CFII sooner rather than later.
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Take the CFII ride in Dec and you keep your Jan expiration date too.


I was amazed when I read the email this morning. Since when does the FAA use logical reasoning? The Apocalypse is upon us!
 
deadstick said:
Take the CFII ride in Dec and you keep your Jan expiration date too.


I was amazed when I read the email this morning. Since when does the FAA use logical reasoning? The Apocalypse is upon us!
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Personally, I think the Chief Counsel was correct based on what the language of the rule actually said but, practically speaking, it made no sense. When the issue was originally discussed there was already a problem within the FAA. Pilots calling various FSDOs got very different answers to the question.

The Chief Counsel letter, right or wrong, made things uniform, but my WAG is that there was ongoing discussion within the FAA about what they wanted and this amendment was the result.
 
rframe said:
And just in time for my CFII check ride in two weeks and my flight review that is due in November! Whooopeeee!
Click to expand...

Just remember the new rule does not go in effect until November 15, 2013, and that is unless an adverse comment is received during a 30-day comment period ending October 16, 2013.
 
So for example's sake if someone became a CFI one month before November 15 of this year just as this rule will go into effect, that will not count as a flight review?
 
FoodStampsPilot said:
So for example's sake if someone became a CFI one month before November 15 of this year just as this rule will go into effect, that will not count as a flight review?
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I'm inclined to wait for a human to answer, but adultus in absentus: My read is: If your BF expires in October of this year, you need a BFR before then...otherwise, you'll be good to go at the expiration of your CFI.

~Fox
 
FoodStampsPilot said:
So for example's sake if someone became a CFI one month before November 15 of this year just as this rule will go into effect, that will not count as a flight review?
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Not worth much, but her's my take.

Remember the flight review is a look back. So, on November 15, when the reg is effective, you will indeed have taken a qualifying FR replacement within the previous 24 calendar months.
 
As far as I know, the date that is on your new certificate is the start of your flight review date countdown. Meaning if you do your CFI ride you get a new cert, not a replacement of your pilot cert. Now you will have two dates to maintain. One for your pilot BFR, and the other for FIRC. At least thats what the FSDO told me.

Ryan Davis - Assistant Chief Flight Instructor - CFI / CFII / MEI / AGI / IGI / ATP - Captain BE90
 
Caelum Deus said:
As far as I know, the date that is on your new certificate is the start of your flight review date countdown. Meaning if you do your CFI ride you get a new cert, not a replacement of your pilot cert. Now you will have two dates to maintain. One for your pilot BFR, and the other for FIRC. At least thats what the FSDO told me.

Ryan Davis - Assistant Chief Flight Instructor - CFI / CFII / MEI / AGI / IGI / ATP - Captain BE90
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You may have misunderstood the FSDO inspector. Or I may be misunderstanding you. Or the FSDO inspector hasn't been briefed on the new rule.

Try this scenario (avoiding issues about the effective date)

Pilot's last flight review was September 15, 2013.
Pilot takes a CFI-A ride February 3, 2014. CFI certificate expires February 28, 2016.
Pilot takes a CFI-IA ride November 5, 2014. New CFI certificate issued with a November 30, 2016 expiration date.
The November 5, 2014 CFI-IA ride counts as a flight review, which is also good until November 30, 2016.

What's the other date?

If you're just saying that a CFI who renews via FIRC and gets flight review credit from something other than a CFI ride needs to keep track of two dates, that's always been true.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
You may have misunderstood the FSDO inspector. Or I may be misunderstanding you. Or the FSDO inspector hasn't been briefed on the new rule.

Try this scenario (avoiding issues about the effective date)

Pilot's last flight review was September 15, 2013.
Pilot takes a CFI-A ride February 3, 2014. CFI certificate expires February 28, 2016.
Pilot takes a CFI-IA ride November 5, 2014. New CFI certificate issued with a November 30, 2016 expiration date.
The November 5, 2014 CFI-IA ride counts as a flight review, which is also good until November 30, 2016.

What's the other date?

If you're just saying that a CFI who renews via FIRC and gets flight review credit from something other than a CFI ride needs to keep track of two dates, that's always been true.
Click to expand...

I would go with the last one (FSDO not being up to date) :-)

The easiest way I've handled this was to just have the CFI examiner sign off a BFR endorsement after the checkride. Then there is absolutely no confusion. Better to have more then less, just to be safe

Ryan Davis - Assistant Chief Flight Instructor - CFI / CFII / MEI / AGI / IGI / ATP - Captain BE90
 
Of course somebody at the FSDO would try and confuse a clear topic. The new law will state that CFI rides count as flight reviews. Nothing more, nothing less. A bit like the guys who are adamant that 121 FO's who now have the SIC limitation removed still can't log PiC. Last guy I cam across said it was a grey area....it seemed pretty black and white to me.
 
hammerhat said:
Just remember the new rule does not go in effect until November 15, 2013, and that is unless an adverse comment is received during a 30-day comment period ending October 16, 2013.
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This morning, the Federal Register contains a notice by the FAA that the comment period ended and the final rule will go into effect November 15 as planned.

To review, the amendments actually do three different things:
  • Amends 61.56 to allow a CFI practical test to substitute for a flight review
  • Clarifies that pilots who meet the currency requirements of Parts 135 and 121 do not have to also meet 61.57 currency requirements when engaged in an operation for the certificate holder.
  • Tweaks 61.29 to meet reality. We've been using online services for a while to order replacement certificates; the amendment specifically authorizes using online services and other methods in addition to hardcopy letters (yeah, really!)
The final rule is available at http://goo.gl/qhMQkr
 
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