Cessna Layoffs and Columbus Suspension

[meritflyer]

Actually, I'd make the argument that it's a crutch that idiots can use to pass check rides. Someone who couldn't have cut it on steam gauges because they never knew where the F they were, can now point to a giant map in front of them.

Not true whatsoever.

I teach on the steam. Primary instruction on glass is not my cup of tea.

However, when used properly the glass can be a real resource to the pilot. The systems are far more complex than any steam system out there. Just understanding the ADCs, AHRS, symbol generators, and electrical components of the operation require substantially more study and application learning as opposed to rote memorization.

Weather, systems management, situational awareness, fuel management, flight planning, and so forth are all novel enhancements on the glass. These however, are not a substitute for proper primary training in such areas.

 

[BillErvin]

when utilized correctly.

That's the Key phrase

Problem is most people spend too much time with their head down looking at that technology, when they should be looking outside at that ratty 150 headed the other direction

 

[BillErvin]

If you mean the end as in they will no longer produce LSA and VLJs, no. But if you are referring to the crazy marketing, better than sliced bread craze, then I believe so. When someone comes up with a "revolutionary" idea, you will have several jump on the band wagon. It takes time, but the weak ones are eventually weeded out.

Judging from the LSA showing (or lack there of)at Sun & Fun, I'd say that's already happening.

 

[jrh]

At the risk of being "that guy", I've never flown a glass cockpit in my life. Not once.

...

I'm sure glass cockpits have a place in 777s. The 172 works just fine without them.

I've never driven a Corvette.

Corvettes suck!



I love how the forums here at JC, generally speaking, place a very high value on experience. Reference the numerous threads on paying dues, building experience as an instructor, freight dog, etc. before moving on to heavy iron.

When somebody with a few hundred hours doesn't understand something like pay scales, unions, etc., the common answer is, "Wait a while, once you get some experience, you'll see."



Apparently that line of logic doesn't apply to glass cockpits. "I don't even know what I'm talking about, but eff 'em, real men fly steam gauges!"

 

[Boris Badenov]

Are you suggesting that a glass cockpit makes the thing go faster or handle better?

 

[jrh]

Are you suggesting that a glass cockpit makes the thing go faster or handle better?

No. Why would I?

 

[mshunter]

So then are we watching the end of the ridiculous movement of LSA and VLJs?

GAWD I hope so!

I think a good instructor is worth $35 an hour ... that's what I pay our club instructor. It just sucks that flight schools take so much off of the top. That's still much more than I made graduate teaching at Ohio State.

Perhaps you're right - I would just think that Cessna's been building Skyhawks so long that they could put one together and sell it starting at $100k. That would do far more to encourage ownership.

If we could bring aircraft ownership of a decent 4 place bird like a skyhawk into the hands of the average man, mabey GA would have a chance at surviving.

Another reason why user fees would be so crippling.

WOW! Thats a whole nuther' box of poop! I am against them, other than that--------no comment.

 

[meritflyer]

I've never driven a Corvette.

Corvettes suck!



I love how the forums here at JC, generally speaking, place a very high value on experience. Reference the numerous threads on paying dues, building experience as an instructor, freight dog, etc. before moving on to heavy iron.

When somebody with a few hundred hours doesn't understand something like pay scales, unions, etc., the common answer is, "Wait a while, once you get some experience, you'll see."



Apparently that line of logic doesn't apply to glass cockpits. "I don't even know what I'm talking about, but eff 'em, real men fly steam gauges!"

Amen brother, amen.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Meh, I can see both sides of it. If I'm paying for it, I'll take the cheaper (read: old airplane with no glass) route most of the time.

On the other hand, if cost was no object (like a lot of the people who buy new aircraft and use them to go places) I would be a real big fan of the 10.4" MFD powered by dual GPSs with terrain and satellite weather. Anything to help ensure that I make it there in one piece.

As it is, I fly the planes they pay me to fly. In my case, they happen to be glass.

 

[derg]

Whoah, so I'm part of the evil conspiracy to hold folks down because while I can appreciate FMS/EFIS at work when I fly over the ocean or conduct one of those wacky ICAO SIDS/STARs, but not readily accepting that same technology for a flying go-cart that , if it was affordable, I'd own?

If I'm going from point-A to point-B, I'm going to non-rev, be sitting in first class with a buzz from my third vodka tonic.

If I'm looking to have some fun and get back to basics, I'd like a simple, understandable, semi-self maintainable single-engine aircraft that I can go see some stuff, pull a couple G's or so and get back to the bare-knuckled primal state of aviation.

Kind of like being a chef. You're making duck a l'orange at work, but when you probably want to make a good old fashioned macaroni 'n cheese, sit on the couch in your underwear and watch hot topics on "The View".

 

[Boris Badenov]

If I'm looking to have some fun and get back to basics, I'd like a simple, understandable, semi-self maintainable single-engine aircraft that I can go see some stuff, pull a couple G's or so and get back to the bare-knuckled primal state of aviation.

Sorry Dough, you don't know what you're talking about. You haven't felt the extra 10hp that come with racing stripes and a MFD. Let the aviation-experts speak.

 

[jrh]

Whoah, so I'm part of the evil conspiracy to hold folks down because while I can appreciate FMS/EFIS at work when I fly over the ocean or conduct one of those wacky ICAO SIDS/STARs, but not readily accepting that same technology for a flying go-cart that , if it was affordable, I'd own?

If I'm going from point-A to point-B, I'm going to non-rev, be sitting in first class with a buzz from my third vodka tonic.

If I'm looking to have some fun and get back to basics, I'd like a simple, understandable, semi-self maintainable single-engine aircraft that I can go see some stuff, pull a couple G's or so and get back to the bare-knuckled primal state of aviation.

Kind of like being a chef. You're making duck a l'orange at work, but when you probably want to make a good old fashioned macaroni 'n cheese, sit on the couch in your underwear and watch hot topics on "The View".

Nothing wrong with that at all! Why do you think I fly a VFR-only 1946 Cessna 140 during my time off?

Your biases come from your line of work though. Very few new Cessnas are sold to people with similar backgrounds to you (backgrounds in professional aviation). You are not the target market for Cessna, therefore there is little reason to cater to your interests. I love ya Doug, but I'm explaining a business reality of why Cessna has structured their aircraft and marketing the way they have.

 

[killbilly]

Nothing wrong with that at all! Why do you think I fly a VFR-only 1946 Cessna 140 during my time off?

Dude. I like you and everything. I think you post great stuff.

But for the LOVE OF GOD AND WICHITA - please change your avatar to a picture of your airplane or at least one similar to it.

Thanks.

-b

 

[derg]

Sorry Dough, you don't know what you're talking about. You haven't felt the extra 10hp that come with racing stripes and a MFD. Let the aviation-experts speak.

Hey man, you mean putting "GT" after "Chevy Beretta" wasn't enough for a little chutspah at the green light on Mooney Blvd?

 

[derg]

Nothing wrong with that at all! Why do you think I fly a VFR-only 1946 Cessna 140 during my time off?

Your biases come from your line of work though. Very few new Cessnas are sold to people with similar backgrounds to you (backgrounds in professional aviation). You are not the target market for Cessna, therefore there is little reason to cater to your interests. I love ya Doug, but I'm explaining a business reality of why Cessna has structured their aircraft and marketing the way they have.

Well, fair enough. But I make a decent living and I've been priced out of General Aviation.

I GA was probably like the bartender at the corner bar (Temple!) that says that the N. Scottsdale market can support a $6.00 pint of beer, but the bar is pretty much dead 95% of the time.

But when it's reverse happy hour and half-price drinks, it livens up significantly.

 

[meritflyer]

Sorry Dough, you don't know what you're talking about. You haven't felt the extra 10hp that come with racing stripes and a MFD. Let the aviation-experts speak.

Let the real men speak.

Honestly, if you're not flying on the steam, you're clearly not a Sully.

 

[jrh]

Dude. I like you and everything. I think you post great stuff.

But for the LOVE OF GOD AND WICHITA - please change your avatar to a picture of your airplane or at least one similar to it.

Thanks.

-b

There! That's my plane, and it's even me in the cockpit with the engine running, but it's hard to tell with the image shrunk down so small. Happy now?

 

[killbilly]

There! That's my plane, and it's even me in the cockpit with the engine running, but it's hard to tell with the image shrunk down so small. Happy now?

Yep. That's a real pretty paintjob on it, too. Do you have some other pics? I'd love to see them.

 

[jrh]

Yep. That's a real pretty paintjob on it, too. Do you have some other pics? I'd love to see them.

Haha...it has a 50 foot paint job if there ever was one. It only looks good in a picture the size of my avatar. It has been sun-faded and retouched multiple times. That picture was shot back in 2007.

My current paint scheme looks even worse. Last year I sanded numerous spots of corrosion off seams around the fuselage, then sprayed the spots with zinc chromate primer to protect from future corrosion, but haven't done anything with it since. So now it has a few different shades of yellow, with nasty greenish polka dots all over.

I'm saving up to get it repainted, but whenever I do it, I want it done right, so that might take $8-10k. Might be a few years down the road.

Here are some pics from the pre-polka dot era: