It is mighty. We sealed a few things in the house. It's very mighty.
Nope. My wife spent her money on Mighty Putty. Er...our money. I think that's how she says it.
-mini
Cessna Layoffs and Columbus Suspension
- Thread starter fisher37
- Start date
It is mighty. We sealed a few things in the house. It's very mighty.
-mini
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
jrh
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, there's no doubt times have changed.
To briefly address the instructor fees, I would say $50 is more in line with what a good instructor is worth and $20 is grossly undercharging, but obviously I'm biased.
So that leaves us with aircraft. It sounds like you're making more of a case against new aircraft than you are against glass panels specifically.
My question is, are vintage planes from the '60s and '70s supposed to last forever? That's an honest question.
Personally I believe we have to get new planes sooner or later. This conclusion leads to the fact that new planes are more expensive than old planes. It doesn't matter if you build them big or small, complex avionics or simple, they're going to be more expensive, end of story. Look at all the new LSAs out there. They're simple and have gone through comparatively little certification testing, yet they're still in the $100k+ price range.
Now imagine what it takes to design and certify a larger, more complex, more powerful aircraft (such as a 172). That's where the price tag comes from.
My philosophy is that there's no use getting pissed off at the inevitable. Flying is expensive. It always has been and always will be. We've seen a lot of changes in the past few years, but I don't think they're bad. The increase in price has also brought many positive changes in other areas (safety, utility, efficiency, comfort...). People who truly love flying will always find a way to do it.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
So then are we watching the end of the ridiculous movement of LSA and VLJs?
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I think a good instructor is worth $35 an hour ... that's what I pay our club instructor. It just sucks that flight schools take so much off of the top. That's still much more than I made graduate teaching at Ohio State.
Perhaps you're right - I would just think that Cessna's been building Skyhawks so long that they could put one together and sell it starting at $100k. That would do far more to encourage ownership.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Nah, the end of LSAs will come when some 90-year old epileptic gets his drivers license back, and then immediately crashes his LSA into a school. Ex post facto public outcry will naturally ensue.
If you mean the end as in they will no longer produce LSA and VLJs, no. But if you are referring to the crazy marketing, better than sliced bread craze, then I believe so. When someone comes up with a "revolutionary" idea, you will have several jump on the band wagon. It takes time, but the weak ones are eventually weeded out.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
The future is going to be people with decent jobs who like flying for fun. The days of some obnoxious middle manager who scored a windfall on the absurdly corrupt sale of his "profit-sharing" options coming out to the field and wanting to buy a Cirrus and "the pilot who goes with it" are done. Kick your feet and scream all you want, but you're going to have to sell people with limited means on the utility or the fun of flying an airplane, rather than the Status and ability to get stupid nubiles to spread. Throw out the glossy brochures and pictures of some poncing Member with his trophy wife, lamborghini, and hunting dogs in front of a Columbia. Stock up on FAA pubs and airplanes that fly every day with minimal maintenance and don't cost five grand to fire up and have brushed aluminum cup holders as a standard item. Ah, sanity. Refreshing.
jrh
Well-Known Member
Doug, that's partly my point--it's not realistic to expect to rent in that price range anymore. I know of a beat up, ratty old C-150 for $77/hour, but everything else is $100+/hour, even used aircraft.
It's like saying I'd drive my truck more if gas were $1/gal instead of $2/gal. That might be true, but the reality is that gas is $2/gal and it ain't getting any cheaper. I wish I could live with late-90s pricing for the rest of my life, but I can't. I can decide to walk away (haha...literally!) or pony up the cash for driving.
I guess we all have to decide for ourselves if this activity is worth it or not, but I can say for me personally, I'm more convinced now than ever that I want to be involved with general aviation. I consider it to be a fair deal. I know the economic reality of what it costs to put a plane in the sky and still decide to go for it.
That's fine if you don't care for glass. I'd just like to point out that glass cockpits are only a small part of the total reason for increased prices, not the sole reason as many people believe.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Maybe part of the equation has to do with the fact that we'll take kids with little experience flying, and even less experience with the English language, and put them at the controls of a quarter-million dollar machine. Just saying.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
If that's what it takes - well. . .I just hope it's not my son's school.
I meant it in the sense of the borlded portion. On that note, WONDERFUL!
Now, who will have to sell this? Who's feet are being kick and lungs screamed?
Personally, cheers to the end of this ridiculous marketing nonsense.
But, it's their DREAM!
Just as it was once my dream to bang hot women 24/7 and never need Cialis. Well, I'm not banging hot women all day, and I don't know about Cialis just yet. . .but my point is that reality hits eventually. When? No one knows, but it will.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Man, I hope so.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
I may be nuttier than chinese chicken salad, politically, but I pay pretty close attention to markets. I see no other possible outcome. The party is over. The only question is how much booze the guilty parties manage to smuggle out and how long it takes to hunt down and kill them or their progeny (economically speaking). I'll be gleefully voting for the "salt in their fields" program. More than likely, they'll just be a whole lot less rich than they were to "start with" (after lives that were entirely predicated on privilege and theft). Either way, there's a reckoning coming. I'm just sitting over here praying for the unlikely possibility that this all ends with Those People hanging from lamp-posts.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Another reason why user fees would be so crippling.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Glass cockpits offer situational awareness and pertinent information that steam gauges simply don't. It's far beyond staring at an ASI tape and thinking it's cool. It's a matter of improving safety which I strongly believe glass cockpits offer when utilized correctly.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
At the risk of being "that guy", I've never flown a glass cockpit in my life. Not once. I've yet to swap paint with anything, except for that one lightpole back on the FLX ORL ramp long ago, which I don't think a G1000 would have saved me from. That was a joke, if anyone asks. Learn how to fly the thing, and the six pack will treat you just fine. Although my name is not actually SuperPilot, you can call me that, if you want to set aside generations of pilots way more skillful than I am who also got along just fine without software. I'm sure glass cockpits have a place in 777s. The 172 works just fine without them. IMHO, etc.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Actually, I'd make the argument that it's a crutch that idiots can use to pass check rides. Someone who couldn't have cut it on steam gauges because they never knew where the F they were, can now point to a giant map in front of them. Lower the bar baby, lower the bar.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
I flew with one of those...
anic: