Cessna Caravan EX Review

jrh said:
Nice write up. At the risk of starting another pointless argument, I'd like to point out a fact I learned in my CFI refresher course this year...there has not been a fuel exhaustion accident in a glass cockpit equipped aircraft. The G1000 fuel range ring is probably one of the largest contributors to this statistic.
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I'm pretty sure a Cirrus *crashed a couple of months ago after running out of fuel.

*Crashed/pulled the chute.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
jafra98 said:
That it flies just like a 172 only a little heavier;).......... What's your point??
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No point, just the whole eye roll thing.

You're right though, it flies exactly like a 172, which is a testament to it's design. That is, until you get into ice and have to carry full power to the runway while flipping the boot switch like a mad man wondering if you should toast a motor or take your chances making it to the runway. But yeah, its just like a 172.
 
jrh said:
Nice write up. At the r starting another pointless argument, I'd point out a fact I learned in my CFI refresher course this year...there has not been a fuel exhaustion accident in a glass cockpit equipped aircraft. The G1000 fuel range ring is probably one of the largest contributors to this statistic.
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Heck, even the sight gauge and the fuel totalizer in the Dynon d180 in the Remos LSA I teach in makes it shockingly hard to run out of fuel.
 
UAL747400 said:
TKS should make it better than anything with boots I imagine.
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Only for about 2 hours.. when Cessna gets it approved (Just to give Pat a hard time). It also has logistical limitations on availability up here, so either pack extra fluid along or don't plan a trip to far away. Also the cost of it just bleeding out into the ether is revenue lost. We have run our 950 Garrett with boots for two winters in the Southeast Alaska ice maker and have only had 1 divert which was due to freezing rain.
 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk 21365827505.355566.jpg
I am what people will someday call "Mentally Retarded."
 
Capt. Chaos said:
Only for about 2 hours.. when Cessna gets it approved (Just to give Pat a hard time). It also has logistical limitations on availability up here, so either pack extra fluid along or don't plan a trip to far away. Also the cost of it just bleeding out into the ether is revenue lost. We have run our 950 Garrett with boots for two winters in the Southeast Alaska ice maker and have only had 1 divert which was due to freezing rain.
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That's the "fun" part. :) I had it on the 210s and Barons at Flight Express. LOVED it. On max flow, ice, what ice? Only 75 minutes on that setting though. Tastes good too! :D Had to divert 3 times due to getting low though. SUPER fun refilling it in Fort Dodge, IA in the middle of a snow storm. :mad:
 
UAL747400 said:
That's the "fun" part. :) I had it on the 210s and Barons at Flight Express. LOVED it. On max flow, ice, what ice? Only 75 minutes on that setting though. Tastes good too! :D Had to divert 3 times due to getting low though. SUPER fun refilling it in Fort Dodge, IA in the middle of a snow storm. :mad:
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Right after Wings of Alaska birthed out Seaport, they put a down payment a TKS van from Kenmore and tried to run it from PAJN to PAFE, and the math worked out that if you went missed on the way back to PAJN it would be bone dry before the missed approach hold, let alone make the alternate. When Kenmore repo'd it it probably saved someones life. There are enough "fun" aspects in our flying already.. worrying about ice range would be a big issue. Which gives me a question for ppragman or anyone else with a TKS machine. For 135 flight and alternate planning does the TKS endurance become a "controlling" item?
 
Capt. Chaos said:
Right after Wings of Alaska birthed out Seaport, they put a down payment a TKS van from Kenmore and tried to run it from PAJN to PAFE, and the math worked out that if you went missed on the way back to PAJN it would be bone dry before the missed approach hold, let alone make the alternate. When Kenmore repo'd it it probably saved someones life. There are enough "fun" aspects in our flying already.. worrying about ice range would be a big issue. Which gives me a question for ppragman or anyone else with a TKS machine. For 135 flight and alternate planning does the TKS endurance become a "controlling" item?
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Officially, no. Not that I recall off the top of my head at the moment. But if you screwed up and lived, I imagine you'd get tagged with careless and reckless. Us pilots in the Midwest on the longer routes had our "unapproved" way of using it as a de-ice which would give you about 5 hours. On my particular route STP-OMA, I would use it as sparingly as possible to at least Fort Dodge if I could, max flow if things got really out of hand(they never did). Always had at least enough(usually more) to get to my alternate running it on continuous normal flow. What would make me REALLY nervous is the OMA-DEN run(3-3.5 hours each way). Hopefully you did a good pre-flight look at your options! Never had to cover that run in the wintertime thank god.
 
Capt. Chaos said:
Right after Wings of Alaska birthed out Seaport, they put a down payment a TKS van from Kenmore and tried to run it from PAJN to PAFE, and the math worked out that if you went missed on the way back to PAJN it would be bone dry before the missed approach hold, let alone make the alternate. When Kenmore repo'd it it probably saved someones life. There are enough "fun" aspects in our flying already.. worrying about ice range would be a big issue. Which gives me a question for ppragman or anyone else with a TKS machine. For 135 flight and alternate planning does the TKS endurance become a "controlling" item?
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On this van I have 208 minutes of anti-ice with a full tank. So realistically you could safely do a trip to Kake and back.
 
UAL747400 said:
Officially, no. Not that I recall off the top of my head at the moment. But if you screwed up and lived, I imagine you'd get tagged with careless and reckless. Us pilots in the Midwest on the longer routes had our "unapproved" way of using it as a de-ice which would give you about 5 hours. On my particular route STP-OMA, I would use it as sparingly as possible to at least Fort Dodge if I could, max flow if things got really out of hand(they never did). Always had at least enough(usually more) to get to my alternate running it on continuous normal flow. What would make me REALLY nervous is the OMA-DEN run(3-3.5 hours each way). Hopefully you did a good pre-flight look at your options! Never had to cover that run in the wintertime thank god.
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As a customer I'd let you make that mistake about once(diverting because you could no longer fly in ice) before I went shopping. But most routes that anything with TKS flies are very short and that shouldn't be an issue.
 
z987k said:
As a customer I'd let you make that mistake about once(diverting because you could no longer fly in ice) before I went shopping. But most routes that anything with TKS flies are very short and that shouldn't be an issue.
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So, crash or cancel is a better alternative? :) There wouldn't be a single operator in business under that premise.
 
z987k said:
Well what I mean is, I'd find someone with an airplane than can handle the route in all weather.
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UNpossible. It only takes about 30 minutes to land, fill the tank and get back in the air however if you're Jonny on the spot. I seem to remember being told to stay put in Kearney Nebraska during a blizzard that was still legal to fly. UPS didn't have a fit. ;)
 
jrh said:
Nice write up. At the risk of starting another pointless argument, I'd like to point out a fact I learned in my CFI refresher course this year...there has not been a fuel exhaustion accident in a glass cockpit equipped aircraft. The G1000 fuel range ring is probably one of the largest contributors to this statistic.
Click to expand...

That isn't true.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/cirrus-sr20-pulled-chute-after-running-out-fuel
 
Seggy said:
That isn't true.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/cirrus-sr20-pulled-chute-after-running-out-fuel
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I was referring to GA aircraft, which excludes the first two links.

As for the last case....I stand corrected. I did my CFI refresher course online through American Flyers in February, so maybe they hadn't updated their material since the SR20 crashed only a month earlier.

In any case, I think it's fair to say glass cockpits have made a huge improvement in reducing fuel management-related accidents.
 
jrh said:
I was referring to GA aircraft, which excludes the first two links.
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Fair enough

As for the last case....I stand corrected. I did my CFI refresher course online through American Flyers in February, so maybe they hadn't updated their material since the SR20 crashed only a month earlier.
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Could be.

In any case, I think it's fair to say glass cockpits have made a huge improvement in reducing fuel management-related accidents.
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I think it is fair to say that as well.
 
Capt. Chaos said:
Which gives me a question for ppragman or anyone else with a TKS machine. For 135 flight and alternate planning does the TKS endurance become a "controlling" item?
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I don't fly a TKS machine under Part 135, but I'd like to point out how a pilot does not need to use TKS the entire flight. It's not like fuel. They can get out of the ice and turn the system off, thus conserving TKS fluid.

If I think I'll be in IMC the entire trip, I make sure the TKS tanks have enough fluid to cover the entire trip. Most of the time, I only need enough fluid to climb on top, cruise in the clear, then descend into the muck and shoot an approach.
 
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