Cessna 402C training material

[Roger Roger]

Fuel vaporizes in the lines and the priming purges the vapor. With TIO-540s hot just firewall the throttle and mixture then prime until fuel pressure stabilizes and no longer (3 sec). Mixture idle cutoff, throttle wide open, crank. As soon as it fires, mixture goes in half way & bring the throttle back. This has never failed me from starting anything hot from an IO-360 to a TIO-540.... It even works on Continentals.

If you flood it. Turning the engine over with the throttles open, mixtures idle cutoff & mags off will draw more air into the cylinders without introducing more fuel. This will dry the cylinders & plugs out. Fumes burn not liquid fuel. Unlike cold engines, hot engines want to be lean to start. For a cold piston engine think fuel. For a hot piston engine think air.

Again, in my experience with TIO540s that will flood the snot out of it. Maybe it's climate, but like I said if the engine is warm throttle cracked, mixture cutoff and crank will have it fire within a few blades every time.

 

[mikecweb]

Hard to land that one long. Congrats.

Can't forget the ignitors either. I think this is a win win.

 

[TallFlyer]

Again, in my experience with TIO540s that will flood the snot out of it. Maybe it's climate, but like I said if the engine is warm throttle cracked, mixture cutoff and crank will have it fire within a few blades every time.

+1

 

[dasleben]

Well...after lots and lots of hot starts in the TSIO-520, I can attest that 60% of the time, it works every time.

Worked in all climates from humid Caribbean to cold northeast winters. It was my go-to procedure when the motor was vapor locked. Always fired up on cue.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

Again, in my experience with TIO540s that will flood the snot out of it. Maybe it's climate, but like I said if the engine is warm throttle cracked, mixture cutoff and crank will have it fire within a few blades every time.

Yeah, I'll have to try that. Less lever throwing and reduces the potential of blasting anyone behind you when you're trying to tech someone how to hot start....

About 15 minutes after shut down with the OAT over 40C my way works 100% of the time, almost every time. However, it does take about 5 seconds of cranking before anything happens. I know the FI systems are different, but I've done the same with TSIO-520s and had the same luck.

 

[Roger Roger]

Yeah, I'll have to try that. Less lever throwing and reduces the potential of blasting anyone behind you when you're trying to tech someone how to hot start....

About 15 minutes after shut down with the OAT over 40C my way works 100% of the time, almost every time. However, it does take about 5 seconds of cranking before anything happens. I know the FI systems are different, but I've done the same with TSIO-520s and had the same luck.

Yeh, no experience with the TSIO520 but I've had real good luck with that technique on Lycs, even non turbo ones.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

I recall throttle full, mixture idle/cutoff, mags off. Dry motor for 5-6 turns, mixture rich, throttle 1/4", prime and start as normal.

Works like a charm. Used it twice today, all with turn times of less than 15 minutes.

 

[dasleben]

Works like a charm. Used it twice today, all with turn times of less than 15 minutes.

Good deal!

 

[Cal Goat]

Didn't land it long, but I sure did show those oleo struts who's the boss.

I've got about 40~ hours in a 402C. Great airplane. I fondly recall flying with a retired airline pilot one day and thinking I'd look really cool and do a short approach and try to grease it on the numbers at KRHV. Suffice it to say, I miscalculated my energy reserves when I chopped the throttles at some point near the threshold. Banged it on so hard I was sure I bent something.

But I looked at the old guy, and he looked at me, and we both started cracking up. As far as I know the airplane was fine.

 

[dasleben]

I've got about 40~ hours in a 402C. Great airplane. I fondly recall flying with a retired airline pilot one day and thinking I'd look really cool and do a short approach and try to grease it on the numbers at KRHV. Suffice it to say, I miscalculated my energy reserves when I chopped the throttles at some point near the threshold. Banged it on so hard I was sure I bent something.

But I looked at the old guy, and he looked at me, and we both started cracking up. As far as I know the airplane was fine.

Min speed over the threshold should be 95, or else you're going to need a spine realignment. Ask me how I know!

 

[z987k]

Min speed over the threshold should be 95, or else you're going to need a spine realignment. Ask me how I know!

Seriously? With flaps? I've got like 1 flight in a 402 so I don't know much about it, but that seems crazy fast. You'd float the crap out of a pa31 if you were over the threshold that fast. But a lot of people like to fly them fast, which is why they thought 3000' was short.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

VSo is 71. 1.3x that is 92(.3)

 

[mikecweb]

How does it slow down compared to the duke?

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Can't do 190 to the threshold and make the first turnoff, but it's not too hard to keep it going 140ish until close in without abusing the crap out of the engines.

 

[ppragman]

Seriously? With flaps? I've got like 1 flight in a 402 so I don't know much about it, but that seems crazy fast. You'd float the crap out of a pa31 if you were over the threshold that fast. But a lot of people like to fly them fast, which is why they thought 3000' was short.

What are you bringing the navajo in at? I usually use 89 as ref speed in the Chieftain, and that's fine for 3000' strips, with lot's of room to spare, course I'm touching down at maybe 75-80ish, but yeah.

 

[jrh]

I don't know if I've maybe flown the 402 a little *too* long, or I'm *too* current, but I've stopped noticing issues with starting or landing it.

Prime 'til the fuel flow comes up, crack the throttle, crank, start. Works every time, hot or cold.

At first, I remember thinking they were tricky to land, but nowadays it seems like they land pretty much like every other plane I've flown. Maybe a bit firm at times, but nothing terrible. Try not to overthink it.

As for landing distance...yes, 95 knots across the fence is fast for a short field, but if you're following the glideslope/VASI/PAPI all the way to the ground, with the throttles closed, 95 knots across the fence is about right. You'll come in to the flare at 1000' down the runway and actually touch down about 1500'-2000' down, right along with the jets.

That's how we do it at my company because we fly them like airliners to long runways.

If I were flying a 402 at a less standardized place, going to airports that actually had short runways, I'd be at 95 knots on a mile final, touching down at the beginning of the pavement.

 

[dasleben]

That's how we do it at my company because we fly them like airliners to long runways.

Long runways? Must have been a different company. 33R in BOS was always a good time (2557').

 

[jrh]

Long runways? Must have been a different company. 33R in BOS was always a good time (2557').

Yeah, other than new hire training and IOE, I've never flown in the Northeast region, which is fine with me.

There are no short runways in the entire Midwest region. The shortest is 4000 feet, which is a crossing runway at CGI. All of the runways used on a regular basis are 6000+ feet.

I just remember all of the training captains I flew with seemed real nervous about getting slow. They wanted to see 120 knots until we were practically over the runway, then follow the vertical guidance all the way to the ground. Personally, I thought it was overkill, but I do as I'm told. If that's the way they want me to fly, that's how I'll fly.

If it were up to me, I'd have fun getting it down and stopped in 1000 feet on the empty legs.

 

[milleR]

Long runways? Must have been a different company. 33R in BOS was always a good time (2557').

Just don't get confused with november . . .

 

[milleR]

Quick turns in the 402 I always put everything forward, a quick hit on the primer left and right, throttles to idle and they fired every time. Landing was easy with 180 at the marker, toss out the gear and flaps 5 and she'd hit the numbers no problem. The swedish speed brakes work well too. Damn, now I'm waxing sentimental.