Caravan SIC?

jtrain609

jtrain609

Antisocial Monster
Heya everyone,


So I'm browing around climbto350.com today, and I find an ad for Caravan SIC's in Hawaii through Pacific Wings. The first thing that runs through my mind is "$**#(*$(#$# #($*#($* #$( *#($* #$(* #($* job stealing psuedo-scabbers," then something in the ad caught my eye. They said very specifically this is not a PFT program and that it is paid, with non-rev and health benefits.

Huh?

They want pilots that have anywhere from 400-1100 hours to hang out until they reach 135 IFR PIC mins. As I understand 135 regs, this is legal as you can use a second in command pilot in lieu of an autopilot if your ops spec calls for it, but I've never heard of guys being hired with this low of time for a program like this. Anyone fimilar with these guys? I'm a little under their mins, but it'd be tempting to toss them a resume in 75 hours.
 
John Herreshoff said:
...As I understand 135 regs, this is legal as you can use a second in command pilot in lieu of an autopilot if your ops spec calls for it...
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[slight off-topic]

You've got that backwards. A second in command is required (for 135 IFR operations) unless your op-specs has approval to use an auto-pilot in place of the SIC. Keep in mind that even with this exemption, the operator can still use an SIC if desired, and they can log it for 135 flights, auto-pilot being used or not. [/awkward sentence]

[/o-t]
 
Indeed you are right Steve. And I did a little looking at another forum and if they are still running the same racket they were when they were talking about it, then at this place you work the ramp and throw bags for $8 an hour and fly (for free) on your time off. Shady.
 
i have a couple buddies that got hired by them...you work customer service in the mornings and fly in the afternoons...from wat they tell me, its an $8000 paid up front and you have to sign up for at least a year..if you leave before the year is up, the 8000 is pro rated..not real clear on the specifics..guess they are in need of a lot of pilots, but unless you have family in hawaii, you better find 3 extra jobs to survive..
 
nc1982 said:
its an $8000 paid up front and you have to sign up for at least a year..if you leave before the year is up, the 8000 is pro rated.
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Wow! Sounds like you'd be better off building time to meet 135 regs and apply for a PIC slot.
 
Yea and plus if you really wanna get a job afterwards, you have to find some other way of getting muilti time. Sure its turbo time, but muilti is golden these days..
 
nc1982 said:
Yea and plus if you really wanna get a job afterwards, you have to find some other way of getting muilti time. Sure its turbo time, but muilti is golden these days..
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As long as you have 100 hours of ME time or more I doubt you would have any problems. Regionals, if that's your thing, like 135 pilots. Also, don't underestimate the value of having 1000-1500 turbine PIC in the book BEFORE going to a regional. It would take some of the time pressure to upgrade off. SE Turbine PIC might not be the ideal turbine time but you could still check the box and apply elsewhere after building SIC time in an RJ. Just my .02...there are days I wish that I had done it in that order.
 
John Herreshoff said:
Southwest has taken many a Mountain Air Cargo pilot that got their 1,000 turbine PIC in Caravan's.
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Exactly. I doubt 1000 PIC in the van would get you the job but that plus a few good rec's from a couple line pilots would probably do the trick. MAC seems to be a good place.
 
Yea i guess you guys are rite...i guess turbine time is better than no time..but i just couldnt live off 8000 a year in hawaii...Kinda wish i had family out there to live with..
 
nc1982 said:
Yea i guess you guys are rite...i guess turbine time is better than no time..but i just couldnt live off 8000 a year in hawaii...Kinda wish i had family out there to live with..
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Not exactly what I meant. I would NEVER do the $8000/yr deal just to get SIC time in a Van and hope to get a job when I got the time for the PIC job. In that case you'd be better off flight instructing and getting multi time with an MEI and apply for the PIC Van job later. SIC time in a Van is absolutely worthless. I would rank it like this...

1) PIC ME-Turbine (this is obviously king especially in a jet)
2) PIC SE-Turbine (nice to have the 1000-1500 PIC Turbine box checked then move on maybe to the regionals for 121 time in a larger A/C if airlines or cargo is your goal)
3) SIC ME Turbine
4) PIC ME Piston
5) PIC SE Piston (read flight instruction)
6) SIC SE Turbine (really no value in my opinion)

I'm sure others might disagree especially with #3 and #4 since many say night freight is better than SIC time in an rj. Maybe it is maybe it's not, both have their merritts. Much of it depends on quality of life factors especially if you have a family. For me 121 is better since I'm married. With my schedule I'm only gone like 8 nights a month and I'm here every weekend to enjoy my time off with my wife when she's not working. I like my job, I love my family. Work to live not live to work as Doug would say.
 
:whatever: Almost all of Airnet's routes, and most other small cargo companies, start and finish at home and have banker's holidays. Yes, it is at night, but some of them are even day runs or finish early morning.

TX
 
txpilot said:
:whatever: Almost all of Airnet's routes, and most other small cargo companies, start and finish at home and have banker's holidays. Yes, it is at night, but some of them are even day runs or finish early morning.

TX
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Whatever, it's not even close to the same. I'm not going to turn this into the Airnet v. regional pissing match but, what's the point in being home during the day sleeping while my wife is at work only to leave for my night run while she's at home if my objective is to maximize my time with my family? I might as well do 4 day trips! Also, personally I don't know that I could then readjust to normal awake and sleep hours while at home on the weekends. Holidays you say? Well don't ask me I'm yet to work one, not Thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Years, not even a Memmorial Day. I know I'm lucky compared to some and I'm thankful for that. Txpilot, I'm not knocking Airnet, it's a great company with great flying and good people, but the situation you describe is quite different than the one I live in, not a bad situation just different.
 
Cav,

No problem...just giving the cargo side's perspective. I'm trying to avoid the cargo vs. regional thing also, but you made it sound like cargo is impossible to have a family. There are people making a career here, it's not in the cards for me, but some people like the life and have made it work.

As far as holidays, I've been very fortunate...I worked Thanksgiving and will work Christmas...at home (JAX) on standby, getting paid. Some have to fly, but the people that the routes don't fly, get to stay home.

The flipping schedules is actually getting normal, if you can say it's normal to do:confused:

Safe flying,

TX
 
txpilot said:
Cav,

No problem...just giving the cargo side's perspective. I'm trying to avoid the cargo vs. regional thing also, but you made it sound like cargo is impossible to have a family. There are people making a career here, it's not in the cards for me, but some people like the life and have made it work.

As far as holidays, I've been very fortunate...I worked Thanksgiving and will work Christmas...at home (JAX) on standby, getting paid. Some have to fly, but the people that the routes don't fly, get to stay home.

The flipping schedules is actually getting normal, if you can say it's normal to do:confused:

Safe flying,

TX
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Good stuff, glad you gave the freight perspective, I didn't mean to come accross as saying Cargo=no family life, the cargo life has always intrigued me. I would be lying if I said that there's not a side of me that wished I had done that sort of flying before going to XJT especially flying the Caravan for say 1500 hrs :). I would have gone to a place like Airnet given the opportunity but as you know as a lowly CFI, a big part of where you go for your first job is determined by who calls first! As far as regionals go, luckily that was XJT which I must say has done pretty well by me. Perhaps I can get a taste of the frieght world down the road as I think I would prefer FedEx, UPS, or the like at some point in my career. Part of me thinks the backside of the clock flying would be great the other side has some concerns. How do you make the switch with your free time? What are your likes, dislikes, about your schedule?
 
Don't mean to jack the thread but as long as you're asking questions. What's it like to fly for Airnet? Has single pilot IFR scared the stuff out of you yet? I'd like to fly cargo but this is my biggest concern. I have about a hundred night hours in the Duchess. I recieved all of these while flying in Florida in August. Generally I could avoid areas with thunder storms by not flying in the direction that they existed. However, at times I felt like I was closer than I was comfortable with (concerning my personal minimums, didn't bust 20 miles). I'm assuming your aircraft are equipped rather spartanly also (ie no weather radar etc). Does the company push you to fly in borderline conditions? What if you have to circumnavigate a large area and arrive late? I've just heard horror stories about part 134 and a half operators. I was just wondering how a large company like Airnet is compared to these other operators.
 
Y'all come on into the Freight Dawg forums...these questions have been asked and answered. I don't want to hijack this thread any more. Most of us don't bite. Do a search and if you can't find the answer I'll be more than happy to answer.

Cav, to answer specifically your question about flipping schedules,since I am assuming it can apply to a lot of flying jobs, I am assuming it's no different than flying Intl long-range flights, except without the jet lag. Just keep to a schedule. Stay up as long as possible, and account for 8+ hours of sleep time. If you can't sleep, don't just lay in bed...it programs your body to be awake in bed. Get up and read the FAR's or something, then when tired, go to bed. Maximum window coverage also (tin foil on the windows looks ugly, but works great to block out the sun). Come over to FD forum for the QOL questions.

TX
 
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