Captain Toolbox (WARNING! LONG RANT!)

CapnJim

Well-Known Member
On my last pairing, a four day, I had Captain Snap-on himself, a squat, pretentious FFDO who wore his weapon at every opportunity and rotated in his seat, hand on handgun, each time I opened the cockpit door to go take a leak. Not in and of itself improper behavior, but certainly indicative of the personality I was dealing with. He wasn't to bad at first- good conversation, a few laughs, etc.

All was well until we got a mainline jumpseater in the cockpit, when all of a sudden his hero-complex went into high gear. He starts flight instructing, nit-picking, micromanaging. It was, to my great displeasure, my leg. A tricky gusting crosswind to a short runway, IMC, 600ft ceilings. I rode the autopilot till we broke out, disconnected it once we had visual, dipped below glideslope once the field was assured to make the most of the runway, and carried about 5 extra knots to account for the gusts and the fact that he had set my target speed just under the top of the white arc. "You're 5 knots fast!" he says. "Yup" I said. I crab-and-kick, on centerline, and have a completely normal, albeit gusty and wobbly, flare and touchdown. Then, as the nosewheel is coming down, HE GRABS THE CONTROLS AND YANKS THEM BACK FULL AFT AS THOUGH HE'S "SAVING MY LANDING". I was furious. It was clear to the jumpseater that things had just become 'uncomfortable'. On his way out of the cockpit, the guy shook my hand and said sympathetically, "Good luck!"

Later, after the jumpseater had left, it was plain as rain that I was no longer in an amicable mood. Captain Toolbox tries to justify his actions by telling me that I "was too fast" and "went below glideslope without telling him" and "should enter the slip-to-land at 500 ft." but, he says, "It's the training centers fault, they don't teach you properly, with more experience you'll get it right..." I look at him flatly and say, "Is that all?"

I knew damn good and well the reason for every decision I made on every second of my approach, but there was no point in arguing- his ego was the problem, not my flying, and there was clearly no way that he would be willing to discuss it. In the back of my mind, however, I was thinking: "Mother F'r, you better not make one mistake on the flight back!" Needless to say there was no more conversation.

Justice was sweet!

On the approach in, he has much the same conditions as I did, but it was clear that he was way, WAYYYY behind the aircraft. Like dangerously far behind. Like full-scale glideslope deflection. Like too fast to ever get full flaps in. Like break out with the runway at our 1 o'clock. Does he ever call for a go-around, like he should have? Nope. Did he ever call for the landing checklist? Nope. I actually had to interrupt his non-stop stream of blather to tell the poor flight attendant to be seated for landing, or else it wouldn't have been done. I'll give him this much at least: After we exited the runway, he says to me "Man. And I gave you crap about your flying!" Well, thanks Captain Obvious! I just laughed and said "Yup!"

In retrospect, my ego got in the way too. I should have radioed the tower and announced a go-around, nullifying our landing clearance and our dangerous condition. I'll know better next time. And when I upgrade, I'll also know the extent that CRM directly affects saftey of flight.

I'm open to comments, so please, blast away. What would you have done? What could I have done better? How do you handle guys like that when you fly with them?
 
Unfortunately, it sounds too familiar with some of our captains. I'm assuming you and I work for the same company. Some of them let the 4th stripe go right to their head. It's also obvious that your captain hasn't been to Recurrent CRM in a while. I was just there and watched the CLE video. It scared the crap out of me. If I was even remotely unstable (not even close to as bad as you say he was), I would have gone around. Watching that video and listening to the crew, I realized that I do the same stuff every day and it was an eye opener. Your captain seems to have had some issues that he needs to deal with. If you fly with him again and he's like that, a call to pro-standards might be in order. Best of luck.
 
CapnJim said:
but there was no point in arguing- his ego was the problem, not my flying, and there was clearly no way that he would be willing to discuss it.

Been there, done that! Words to live by...:o
 
and the only pay you 21K to put up with that crap????? :)


haha, i would use the sarcasm tag, but it wont apear on the reply to thread screen, a little help here!
 
ERfly, you're right I'm an EWR FO. And It wasn't as bad as I say-- It was worse. I left out some minor points for the sake of post length and embarrasment that I didn't call the go-around myself.

I'll keep pro-standards in mind. I'm reticent to use it because god knows I screw up too, but at least I do it honestly.
 
"Justice was sweet"
"In retrospect, my ego got in the way too"

Can't resist. There must be some FAA psychobabble that discribes this and has an antidote for it. That's all you needed. Sorry, that was from another thread.

I wasn't there but I know the feeling. You get pissed off and go into "I'm not gonna help you" mode. It's not a good thing. If the guy creates an incident and you weren't making calls all the way down about him being off profile, it's you that's gonna look bad. It says in our book that if either pilot says "go around" you have to go around.
 
Would a discussion between the Capt and FO, before the flight started be o.k? Talking about if either person sees things wrong that they would be the one to point it out. Mainly because the pilots are flying for the safety of the passengers in the back and not for themselves. Right?
 
Wow.

I would have had a "come to Jesus" talk in the jetway, on the ramp, wherever out of earshot of anyone after the "grabbing the controls" without the nosewheel on the ground. Unless we aren't hearing the whole story, I would not have put up with that. We would have had a frank discussion about it, and if it didn't change, you can find a new FO. That sounds very dangerous and unsafe.

Then when it comes to his leg inbound, full glideslope deflection, high and fast, etc., I would have immedately called a go-around. Screw his ego or mine, just go the hell around. I'm under the assumption he wasn't properly configured and spooled below 1000 feet AGL here.

I'm no rat by any means, but if someone is dangerously unsafe or creating a hostile working environment, then a call to Pro Standards might be in order. You aren't getting anyone in trouble; you are just allowing someone trained to deal with situations like this to discuss their actions and offer some advice to correct the matter. This might be a good case.
 
I just wonder what the PAX were thinking when the rear wheels touched down then the aircraft lifted off into the sky. I bet they were saying stuff likem, "Why are we taking back off? Somthing must be wrong."
 
I bet they were saying stuff likem, "Why are we taking back off? Somthing must be wrong."

"Am I gonna make my connection"?
 
If I was a senior F/O, after block in I would have grabbed my flight bag, gone to the chief pilots office and told him to call scheduling because I'm no longer flying with that guy.

It always happens this way. 100% of the time. The idiot captain always, always, always, always, messes up. Just like what happened to you. That personality type is so absorbed in other peoples actions, due to his extreme lack of self confidence (either professionally or personally) that they don't have the slightest ability to self assess their own ability. That personality type messes up often. After the screw up, however, they are usually really good to fly with.

Tell the guy you're going to the CPO to get off the trip. Watch him chase you down and start kissing your butt. I'm telling ya...this personality profile fits into a square box.

As a side note...going below glideslope...especially not verbalizing it...is a bad thing. It should be a checkride bust...so I could maybe understand the captain's angst over that...but his response was inappropriate. In a smaller airplane the below g/s deviation probably won't hurt you...but when the main gear is 150' behind you and 25' below you....a little bit below g/s is enough to crash short of the runway.
 
HA!
Kingairer, you are no doubt one of the funniest people on this board.

Gang, thanks for the responses, that's the kind of stuff I was looking for.

Theotkos, the mains never left the ground again once we touched town. The ERJ's nose wheel will really crunch down if you don't set it down gently, so, with mains on the ground and nosewheel slowly descending, I was at about 3/4 full aft travel of the elevator. All Captains Corageous did is yoink it back to full travel, which was totally unnecessary, and made a big show of it as though he 'saved the day'. At no point was my approach unstable, and at no point could the saftey of flight be remotely be considered in doubt. It struck me as nothing more than theatrics for the mainline jumpseater, and at my expense.

DE727UPS- Good feedback. And you're absolutely right. I let my own sense of indignity get in the way of saftey, and to a lesser extent of covering my a$$. It's worse than that: I'm always saying "I can't control what other people do, I control what I do". To that end I totally failed. But I also learned!

flyingmaniac, FlyChicaga- I don't believe that discussion would have helped this man in the slightest. I'm a first year FO, he's a Captain; that's all he would see. Anything criticizing or contradicting would have netted nothing but defensive argument and retaliation. And although a call to flight standards may be non-jeopardy, there most certainly is a stigma attached to it- for both parties. No, it was a one-time event, on the last two legs. Had it been an ongoing problem I may have been inclined to escalate the issue. Captain Craftsman made an ass of himself, and royally; hopefully it stung enough to make him think a little.

B767Driver- Also, good feedback, thank you. You seem to know this type well. My condolences! I'd have to be pretty hacked to storm off to the chief's office, and for the next month (the end of my probationary year) will be utterly disinclined to do so. Still, I will keep that one in my back pocket. I like it a lot. You're right about verbalizing going below g/s though.

As for me, I carried something positive away from it: I got on here full of hubris and anger and every intetion of blasting my frustration away at this guy, but the whole thing turned around. It wasn't about what that guy DID, it was about what I SHOULD HAVE DONE. There's hundreds of guys like that out there, and I'm going to fly with another one before long. But now, I have another tool to deal with them. It's like the old expression: "Good judgment comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgment."
 
Jim,


These guys are all wrong, you shoulda broken this guys jaw. What these guys don't realize is that is what Vin Diesel would do. And if you don't want to take advice from Vin Diesel...well just watch your back.
 
Holy freeking cow. If that captain's attitude is prevalent at that airline, I'm coming nowhere NEAR it.

Once you break down CRM, the environment is not only dangerous, it's proven to be deadly. There have been cases where it's gotten so bad, that the FO was almost cheerful that the captain was screwing up resulting in multiple fatalities. I'd look up a few examples, but I'm lazy and have to get up early in the morning!
 
Oh god! I almost forgot! When he introduced himself in the cockpit, he said the 'Kiss of Death' words: "I'm pretty laid back..."
 
CapnJim said:
Oh god! I almost forgot! When he introduced himself in the cockpit, he said the 'Kiss of Death' words: "I'm pretty laid back..."


Hey Jim,

Another way to handle this...is to just suck it up and let him do his thing. This is why it is not fun to be an F/O. You very much have to be a chameleon...you must adapt every trip to compliment the captain's style.

I'm a very big proponent of the "Captain"...what I mean is...that the captain has the right to run his ship the way he wants to...assuming standards, procedures and safety aren't violated. As a F/O, I work very hard to support the captain and to compliment his style. Fortunately, at the company I work for now...this is very easy...as 99.999% of the captains I work for are fantastic leaders in the cockpit.

Now, having said that...I never quit "silently" being my own captain in my "minds" eye. I silently make my own decisions and evalutions and should they be grossly different from the captain's...I will speak up and give my $.02.

When I was a commuter captain...I always made sure the F/O was treated with dignity. I let him fly the airplane the way he wanted...made his own decisions...etc, etc. The things F/O's did that upset me as a captain were 1) exhibiting a poor attitude, poor service, constant complaining...(no matter how bad things are...I never complain...if it's that bad just quit), and 2) not flying with precision (or at least attempting to), and 3) well...that's about it. It's been so long since I've been a captain I can't remember too well.


I've done about every type of flying out there except military combat...and I can say from my observations that the commuters have the most dysfunctional personality types. When I jumpseat on a commuter line...many times there's a lot of inappropriate conversation during critical phases of flight (still having a conversation during takeoff roll....during the last 500 of landing, etc). Things don't happen very often...but there's so much to think about during the takeoff roll...what to abort for...what to continue for...immediate action items, etc...that I couldn't even begin to hold a conversation at the same time.

When this happens...I wouldn't even engage the other pilot...just sit silently. I learned this from a TWA captain. I was initiating a conversation going through about 8500'. The captain just stared out his window. At 10,001 he turned to me very cordially and said..."it really is a pretty morning, looks like nice weather all day". What a great way to teach a lesson...one I've always remembered and appreciated.
 
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