Canadair Crash at ASE / Aspen Eagle, Colorado

gne in prog said:
I don't think you are lucky. I've flown 91,135, and fractional for nearly 15 years. I've had my share of interesting pax, but I've never had to threaten someone with arrest or had anyone challanger decisions. Most are reasonable and have a sense of self preservation.
Click to expand...
Well that's good there are other operators that don't put the clamp to their pilots.
 
Just heard the ATC tape. Tower gave them winds of 330 at 16, avg winds 320 14 with gusts to 25. Cleared to land 15.
 
rausda27 said:
Just heard the ATC tape. Tower gave them winds of 330 at 16, avg winds 320 14 with gusts to 25. Cleared to land 15.
Click to expand...

Yep and they went missed with 30+ kts tailwind.

Weather right after the accident. pretty dang windy on tape:

 
Took a while, but I've listened to the entirety of the LiveATC archives for ASE and written up a best effort transcript for those who prefer to read rather than listen.

Start of KASE-Jan-05-2014-1830Z Live ATC Recording
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kase/KASE-Jan-05-2014-1830Z.mp3

08m 55s – 09m 04s
Approach:November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot Aspen Approach. Reduce speed to 210. <Not Intelligible>

12m 45s – 12m 50s
Unknown: Attention all aircraft. Low level wind shear advisory is in effect.

13m 04s – 13m 11s
Approach: Five Whiskey Foxtrot Descend and maintain flight level one eight zero.
N115WF: One eight zero. One one five whiskey fox.

17m 30s – 17m 51s
Unknown: Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Turn left heading two seven zero.
Unknown: Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Traffic is at eleven o clock. Seven miles east bound. Climbing to one seven thousand six hundred.
Unknown: Five Whiskey Foxtrot. That traffic is a gulfstream. Turn heading two seven zero.

18m 25s – 18m 28s
Unknown: Five Whiskey Foxtrot. That traffic is no factor.

20m 41s – 21m 02s
N115WF: November one one five whiskey fox. Level two <Not Intelligible>
Approach: November five whiskey foxtrot Aspen approach. Fly heading three zero zero. We’ll try to get you in as soon as we.
N115WF: Three zero zero on the heading.
Approach: Five whiskey foxtrot. That’s heading three three zero.
N115WF: Ok now maintain three three zero.

22m 53s – 22m 59s
Unknown: Five whiskey foxtrot. Fly heading two seven zero.
N115WF: Two seven zero on the heading. Whiskey fox.

24m 34s – 24m 41s
Unknown: November five whiskey foxtrot. Descend and maintain flight level one eight zero.
N115WF: One eight zero. Whiskey one ehh whiskey.

27m 17s – 27m 28s
N115WF: Do you want us to intercept the localizer or maintaining this heading?
Unknown: November Five Whiskey foxtrot maintain that heading. You’ll be number three <Not Intelligible>.
N115WF: Roger

28m 10s – 28m 32s
Unknown: Five whiskey foxtrot. Fly heading one two zero.
N115WF: One two zero on the heading. November one one five whiskey fox.
Unknown: We’re going to hold arrivals and push departures out so don’t expect any delays after that point. That hold will last until 1930 zulu. That’s thirty two minutes.

28m 56s – 29m 03s
Unknown: Five whiskey foxtrot. Turn left heading zero nine zero.
N115WF: Zero nine zero on the heading. <Not Intelligible> One One Five whiskey fox.

30m 44s – 30m 51s
Unknown: Five whiskey foxtrot. Turn left heading three two zero.
N115WF: Three two zero. November One One Five Whiskey Fox.

31m 11s – 31m 28s
Unknown: November Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Descend and maintain one seven thousand. Aspen altimeter three zero zero eight.
Unknown: November Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Descend and maintain one six thousand. Aspen altimeter three zero zero eight.
 
Last edited:
Continued...

Start of KASE-Jan-05-2014-1900Z Live ATC Recording
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kase/KASE-Jan-05-2014-1900Z.mp3

6 m 00s – 6m 17s
Approach: November Five Whiskey Foxtrot verify you have information Romeo
N115WF: Ahh, we have the ahh Romeo on board.
Approach: November Five Whiskey Foxtrot thank you. Decend and maintain one-three thousand four hundred.
N115WF: Thirteen thousand four hundred November one one five whiskey fo…

7m 36s – 8m 02s
Approach: Turn left heading 180. Cross <Not Intelligible> at or above one three thousand four hundred. Cleared localizer DME echo approach.
N115WF: K, cleared via localizer. Ahh, DME approach one five. One One Five Whiskey Fox.
Approach: November Five Whiskey Fox. <Not Intelligible> at one three thousand four hundred or above. Cleared localizer DME echo approach.
N115WF: <Not Intelligible> One localizer echo approach and thirteen thousand <Not Intelligible> or above.

08m 42s – 08m 48s
Approach: Five Whiskey Foxtrot contact tower.
N115WF: Ah, ah we’ll contact tower. One One Five Whiskey Fox.

10m 00s - 10m 36s
Tower: Wind three two zero at one two. Gust two five. Runway one-five cleared to land.
N115WF: Ok, <not intelligible> runway cleared to land and eh <not intelligible>
Tower: November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot <not intelligible>
Tower: Xray Alpha Victor Alpha Lima when able turn left, join alpha contact ground point niner. Any wind-shear?
XAVAL: Ah, <not intelligible>we have like 20 knots wind shear <not intelligible>.
Tower: Gain of 20?
XAVAL: Ah, affirmative..yes.
Tower: November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Falcon just reported a gain of 20 knots. Use caution for low level windshear.
N115WF: Ahh, roger.

11m 10s – 11m 41s
N115WF: K, missed approach. November One One Five Whiskey Fox. There’s thirty-three knots of tailwind.
Tower: November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Execute publish missed.
N115WF: Ok
Tower: November Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Climb and maintain one six thousand. Expedite your climb. Execute published missed. One six thousand on the missed.
N115WF: We’re executing ehh… climbing one six thousand.

12m 45s – 13m 14s
N115WF: One One Five Whiskey Fox. Level at one six. Climbing to one six thousand.
Departure: One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Aspen Departure. Roger. Say intentions.
N115WF: Ok, do a turn back ehh and do another approach. We had a tailwind of thirty knots.
Departure: November Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Roger. Fly heading 310. <Not intelligible> your localizer. DME echo approach.
N115WF: Three one zero and the vectors again for the localizer…one five what? One five I’m sorry.

14m 01s – 14m 04s
N115WF: Heading two nine zero. One One Five Whiskey Fox.

16m 50s – 17m 09s
Same voice as departure: One two zero. Cross the <not intelligible> at one three thousand four hundred. Cleared localizer DME echo approach.
N115WF: One two zero on the heading to intercept localizer DME one five ehh One One Five Whiskey Fox.
Same voice as departure: November Five Whiskey Fox.Cleared localizer DME echo approach.
N115WF: Localizer DME echo approach. One One Five Whiskey Fox.

17m 51s – 17m 57s
Same voice as departure: November Five Whiskey Fox. Contact tower.
N115WF: Contact tower.

19m 12s – 19m 22s
Tower: November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Aspen Tower.
N115WF: Go ahead.
Tower: Runway one five. Continue for November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot.
N115WF: We’ll continue the One One Five Whiskey Fox.

19m 32s – 19m 40s
Tower: November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Traffic twelve o’clock seven miles turning westbound. Nine thousand two hundred.
N115WF:<Not Intelligible>

20m 25s – 20m 39s
Tower: November One One Five Whiskey Foxtrot. Wind three three zero at one six. Runway one five cleared to land. One minute average. Three two zero. One four. Gust two five.
N115WF: Ahh, roger. One One Five Whiskey Fox.

22m 48s – 22m 56s
Striker 698: Ah tower Striker Six Niner Eight. Request<not intelligible>.
Tower: Striker proceed to the downed aircraft.
Striker 698: Striker Six Niner Eight proceed to the air.
 
Last edited:
Wait, that's the whole transcript? Well, there's your problem! They never cleared him for the approach!

Edit: Darn, though I had this one solved.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I recall doing a carpet dance for saying something to the effect of, "you do realize we are a discount retailer right? Nothing is life and death! We sell underpants and kitty litter!"
Click to expand...

Really? You would have gotten a high five from me.


Maybe that's why I'll never be a Chief Pilot/DO......
 
Derg said:
You guys are scaring the crap out of me.
Click to expand...


/Yoda

You should be.

/Yoda


Revenue is king in the charter world (that includes EMS, which is just charter for unconcious people). I wish I could have taped the last phone conference "we" had about a trip that went all pear shaped after I repeatedly said it would. Funny how when I say no, or wait, or go somewhere else now it isn't questioned....
 
I can't imagine why people actually pay for this crap newspaper after this Pulitzer-worthy headline:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/01/05/plane-crash-aspen-colorado/4329883/

Screen Shot 2014-01-05 at 6.10.18 PM.png
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
"Sir, this is my last warning. Go back to your seat and remain there for the rest of the flight, or I'll have the authorities meet us upon landing and you will be arrested on federal charges of interfering with a crew member. Is that clear?"
Click to expand...

I've had to use that before. Worked perfectly. Didn't hear another peep.

(I think this is my first post in YEARS!) How is errrbody?
 
modernicarus said:
At about 21:56 you can hear people in the background saying, "go around! go around!" right after ground tells Citation 312SB to hold short for RWY 33.
and then at about 22:02 when the Citation is giving him the readback, you can hear somebody say, "oh my goodness!"
Click to expand...
Like I said, it was a best effort. It took close to two hours without doing any audio editing. I thought heard some of the things you've pointed out, but they required too many "guesses" at what was being said to remain factual. If I've learned anything from this forum, it's that speculation regarding an accident will get you drawn and quartered which is how it should be. I don't claim to have @MikeD 's knowledge of accidents or the events leading up to them so I didn't want to speculate or make assumptions. I strictly posted what I could hear and be sure I heard without guessing.

Tomorrow if I have time, I'll look at some of the audio filtering techniques available that could make it easier to interpret and distinguish some of those things.

Can a guy get a few likes for the effort?
 
exneophyte said:
Like I said, it was a best effort. It took close to two hours without doing any audio editing. I thought heard some of the things you've pointed out, but they required too many "guesses" at what was being said to remain factual. If I've learned anything from this forum, it's that speculation regarding an accident will get you drawn and quartered which is how it should be. I don't claim to have @MikeD 's knowledge of accidents or the events leading up to them so I didn't want to speculate or make assumptions. I strictly posted what I could hear and be sure I heard without guessing.

Tomorrow if I have time, I'll look at some of the audio filtering techniques available that could make it easier to interpret and distinguish some of those things.

Can a guy get a few likes for the effort?
Click to expand...

Definitely good efforts. Especially considering that CVR interpertation is it's own Working Group on accident boards of the NTSB/AAIB/TSB/Military, etc. And their work can often take a very long time discerning words, inflections, voices if there aren't specific CAMs, etc.

And like anything when it comes to speculation, there's random speculation, and there's informed speculation. While we as humans naturally want to "fill in the blanks" using the former, the latter is the one that's far more productive with known facts.
 
MikeD said:
Definitely good efforts. Especially considering that CVR interpertation is it's own Working Group on accident boards of the NTSB/AAIB/TSB/Military, etc. And their work can often take a very long time discerning words, inflections, voices if there aren't specific CAMs, etc.

And like anything when it comes to speculation, there's random speculation, and there's informed speculation. While we as humans naturally want to "fill in the blanks" using the former, the latter is the one that's far more productive with known facts.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. I don't consider myself qualified to make those speculations which is why I took extra time to compare what I thought I heard(and therefore typed) vs what I heard on subsequent replays of the audio to ensure they actually matched. I noticed a few times when I was verifying what I typed, that I had "filled in the blanks" based on what I expected them to say. Then I'd replay it again to verify and sure enough I'd filled in a few words based what my brain told me I'd heard, but the replay of the audio didn't support it. It's kind of fascinating.
 
exneophyte said:
. I noticed a few times when I was verifying what I typed, that I had "filled in the blanks" based on what I expected them to say. Then I'd replay it again to verify and sure enough I'd filled in a few words based what my brain told me I'd heard, but the replay of the audio didn't support it. It's kind of fascinating.
Click to expand...

It's the same issue when dealing with eyewitnesses who are pilots or have a flying background. There's the danger (unintentional) that what they describe is what they either expect to see based on their own experience, or they'll give an opinion of, for example, what "the pilot was doing", for the same aforementioned reasons; rather than simply describing only what they saw. Oftentimes, I'd have to separate the wheat from the chaff by asking the same question or confirming the same piece of information by inquiring about in two or three different ways, just to filter the "opinion" out vs what was "actually seen".

It is indeed a facinating human factor. That's why I've always said that pilots make both the best, as well as the worst, witnesses to an aviation accident.
 
@MikeD
A question was posed on another forum as to why CFR chose to pull the windscreen to access the cockpit instead of cut through the skin. Any particular reason?

d1ad985c-afef-4833-9d1e-13054b25def7_AP245973202116_1.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top