Canadair Crash at ASE / Aspen Eagle, Colorado

Boris Badenov said:
That airport is an expletive menace under IFR. As Mike said, one way in, one way out. With an off-airport ILS to guide you up the valley if you miss. Only one of those I'm aware of. If it weren't the playground of the rich, there's absolutely no way that place would be open to IFR traffic tomorrow. Hope everyone got out.
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Is there no RNAV procedure instead of something like that?
 
Agree with Boris. On the best of days that place is a challenge. Really not possible to be "stabilized" on that approach. Ground prox screaming at you, fully configured, nose down at the flap limit speed way in excess of 1000 fpm just to get down. Doing it with a big tailwind is sporty to say the least.

I wouldn't do it, but I know what it's like to have Mr. Big applying subtle pressure to get the job done.
 
tomokc said:
With ASE being a one-way airport hemmed in by granite at the south end, I suppose a missed approach at minimums to RWY 15 is one heck of a b****-to-the-wall affair.
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It's fairly normal in the CRJ 700, provided you are going missed at (or prior) to the MAP. It's when you need to bail after the MAP that things can get interesting. We have a plan for that, it's called the Balked landing procedure and requires several specific steps. I've done it in the sim, and even that isn't too crazy with the granite with two engines. However, doing it SE is sketchy to be quite honest. Lots of terrain nearby, and if you even slightly screw something up you are in some trouble. GPWS is going absolutely nuts, even when performed perfectly.

Either way, going into ASE you need to have that stuff memorized and down cold. I would suggest that anybody going in there without a solid plan for going around after the MAP is playing a version of Russian roulette.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Agree with Boris. On the best of days that place is a challenge. Really not possible to be "stabilized" on that approach. Ground prox screaming at you, fully configured, nose down at the flap limit speed way in excess of 1000 fpm just to get down. Doing it with a big tailwind is sporty to say the least.

I wouldn't do it, but I know what it's like to have Mr. Big applying subtle pressure to get the job done.
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ASE is one of our only airports where FOQA is completely out the window (by design, and with the FAA's blessing). Even the departure is a bit weird in that regard.
 
tomokc said:
With ASE being a one-way airport hemmed in by granite at the south end, I suppose a missed approach at minimums to RWY 15 is one heck of a b****-to-the-wall affair.
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I think the warning on my companies 10-7 page says it best:
"Any attempt to execute a normal missed approach or balked landing inside of CEYEG will not provide terrain clearance"
 
We tried to get in there just over a week ago. Winds, ceiling and visibility were all below our limits. Diverted to Rifle. Rifle is about an hour and a half drive, Eagle, about the same. As we diverted, an RJ went in, even though the winds were gusting to almost 20 in the wrong direction.
 
tomokc said:
N303GA crashed attempting to get into ASE in 2001 right before the airport closed for the night, and after previous aircraft missed their approaches and diverted. Killed 3 crew + 15 pax. The charter client is blamed because he entered the cockpit and "encouraged" the crew to land - he was hosting a dinner party that evening, and would have been late if they diverted and were forced to drive.
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Nothing beats that locking cockpit door and pilots with a backbone:

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rausda27 said:
We tried to get in there just over a week ago. Winds, ceiling and visibility were all below our limits. Diverted to Rifle. Rifle is about an hour and a half drive, Eagle, about the same. As we diverted, an RJ went in, even though the winds were gusting to almost 20 in the wrong direction.
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There was no doubt more to the story. The RJs cannot legally land unless the tailwinds are less than or equal to 10 kts. Also, they use the special LOC DME 15 approach, which has significantly lower mins than the generic LOC DME most corp/charter guys use. My first leg in there on IOE, we got right in while a Citation went missed and a Gulfstream V was holding for the Wx to improve.
 
Stone Cold said:
I've, uh, heard, yeah, heard, about a Lear 60 doing a circling approach into there after the captain (and owner of the charter company) botched up the approach and landing so badly there really weren't any other options.
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Forgot to add, that captain is now dead. Augered in flying a helicopter with 2 Dr's on board right after Christmas a couple of years ago, and the company is no longer in business.
 
Derg said:
I'm not a corporate guy but the idea of a flight attendant walking an irate passenger to the cockpit and then taking a jumpseat in a high-stress environment confounds me.
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Me too. It is inappropriate to have passengers in the cockpit trying to dictate flight ops. We have had brokers get weird with us before, calling our cell phones when we are delayed and telling us to get our asses in the plane. They don't like my reply lol.
 
mikecweb said:
Reason 235c why I can't wait to make the jump to 121.
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Inverted said:
Me too. It is inappropriate to have passengers in the cockpit trying to dictate flight ops. We have had brokers get weird with us before, calling our cell phones when we are delayed and telling us to get our asses in the plane. They don't like my reply lol.
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rausda27 said:
Some day, over a beer or two, I will tell you some stories.
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You guys are scaring the crap out of me.
 
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