Can I still get hired by a legacy?

journeytoalegacy said:
Hey all, just wondering how bad my situation is.

I failed PPL, and a stage check in private. Instrument was fine. In commercial, I failed a stage check, and had a taxiing incident where I ran into a light pole and scraped paint on the end of a 172 wing. Also got into a car accident in commercial. To make matters worse, the FSDO guy I “have” to take my ride with has a 40% pass rate.

I’m doing all of this while pursuing a demanding degree outside aviation, which might be wearing me thin and causing some of this mess.
  1. How bad does this all look for the airlines?
  2. If I stay clean moving forward will I still be a competitive airlines (hopefully someday legacy) applicant once things pick up again?
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Your likelihood of getting hired at a legacy carrier has very little to do with your successes and failures you experienced before your first commercial gig.

If you have hurt yourself, you might have made it more difficult to jump from CFI to a 121 carrier without 91 or 135 experience. Ten years of uneventful CFI/91/135 work will keep you in the game for legacy consideration.
 
derg said:
"Disclosure" is your friend. It's usually not that big of a deal, but it develops "trust"
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100x - I’m 99.9% sure that neither Delta/United could see my MV failure but I still put it on the app and talked about it in the interview regardless. It was no big deal, quick chat about it, then was still offered the job at both places. If I didn’t disclose it and that .1% chance it comes up, guaranteed I would have gotten a thanks but no thanks. Just looks dishonest.
 
derg said:
"Disclosure" is your friend. It's usually not that big of a deal, but it develops "trust"
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I have a different opinion when it comes to medical stuff.

Would you encourage all your peers that have struggled with depression to disclose?

What about your peers that reached Type II Diabetes levels and are able to control through diet and exercise? Would you encourage them to disclose? How many of your middle-aged peers are on Metformin and not reporting?

When it comes to past training failures, it’s a fool’s game not to disclose, it’s just a bad risk-reward choice. Even undocumented stuff can be revealed in background checks.

When it comes to my professional choices, my self-interest will trump integrity or trust in my interactions with corporations or the government. Disclosing training or check ride failures is usually in one’s best long-term interests. On the medical side, not so much.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
I have a different opinion when it comes to medical stuff.

Would you encourage all your peers that have struggled with depression to disclose?
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Nothing Medical EVER If HR is asking about anything other than having a first class (class one?) medical, they’re wrong.

Disclosure is your friend when it comes to flying-related things, I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear about that as I assumed it didn’t need saying.
 
derg said:
Nothing Medical EVER If HR is asking about anything other than having a first class (class one?) medical, they’re wrong.

Disclosure is your friend when it comes to flying-related things, I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear about that as I assumed it didn’t need saying.
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Sorry for combining these two things.

Regarding disclosures, I hired a guy that had some set-backs in training a decade prior. One of his references gave him a glowing recommendation, mentioning how he overcame some busts and turned into a model pilot. Took awhile to trust the guy.
 
jhugz said:
100x - I’m 99.9% sure that neither Delta/United could see my MV failure but I still put it on the app and talked about it in the interview regardless. It was no big deal, quick chat about it, then was still offered the job at both places. If I didn’t disclose it and that .1% chance it comes up, guaranteed I would have gotten a thanks but no thanks. Just looks dishonest.
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It’s a great way to get a CJO rescinded or get perp-walked out.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
It’s a great way to get a CJO rescinded or get perp-walked out.
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That actually happened to someone on here a few years ago. He washed out of IOE at one airline, and after getting rejection e-mails from several others when he told the truth on the application, decided to apply to QX claiming that he left his first airline because of "base locations". You could tell he thought he was all clever for pulling a fast one on Horizon. But sure enough, they found out the truth and he got fired for dishonesty.

robofos

Thread 'Coudn't complete IOE'

I have been asked to resign at my first 121 regional. I made it through ground training OK, but the problem was in IOE. At the end of my first trip, my check airmen recommended more time. I was flying the E-175 struggling mostly with the automation, especially descending to the FAF after the STAR. My second attempt of IOE was split between two very different check airmen which was quite a disadvantage. On my last flight, I was still making small mistakes, and I wasn't recommended for a line check. I expected another final chance from management, but ultimately was asked to resign. I guess...
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bike21 said:
I have a slightly odd feeling it's a ruse. That user appeared with all sorts of questions right after the future of JC thread and everyone talking about how we all missed helping newcomers. Coincidence? Maybe, but it they are real we're clearly eager to help.
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Probably not surprising we don't get many new members, considering that whenever we do, everyone suspects them of being a troll or a bot.
 
journeytoalegacy said:
Hey all, just wondering how bad my situation is.

I failed PPL, and a stage check in private. Instrument was fine. In commercial, I failed a stage check, and had a taxiing incident where I ran into a light pole and scraped paint on the end of a 172 wing. Also got into a car accident in commercial. To make matters worse, the FSDO guy I “have” to take my ride with has a 40% pass rate.

I’m doing all of this while pursuing a demanding degree outside aviation, which might be wearing me thin and causing some of this mess.
  1. How bad does this all look for the airlines?
  2. If I stay clean moving forward will I still be a competitive airlines (hopefully someday legacy) applicant once things pick up again?
Click to expand...

If you would be willing, could you provide a little more information?

What do you mean "you failed PPL?" The final checkride? Also what did you fail in your stage checks for private and commercial? One maneuver or several? What caused the taxiing incident? Was it day VFR, or night in rain? Finally, was the car accident your fault? I ask this, because all of these questions determine how we can help. I have been in over a dozen car accidents in the past five years. But with context, it's because I've had to ram cars, use a PIT maneuver, or I've been hit. I've been cleared of all "accidents." We classify them as accidents because they are. If I simply say "I've been in a dozen car accidents" you'll say "OMG don't hire this guy!" But with context, you may think "whoa, this is someone who can handle stressful situations, I want to hear this story." I use myself as an example to drive home a point: Blemishes can become talking points and learning experiences if handled appropriately.

Back in 2000/2001-ish I failed my commercial stage check. I did the soft field landing and brought the gear up as I settled into ground effect like I was trying out for the Blue Angels. It was really stupid, I dunno why I did it... I think to reduce drag. Or to be cocky. Who knows. So I did retraining the next day, and two days later I passed my commercial checkride. When I relate this story 24 years later, I always say my learning takeaway is that "a Piper Arrow is not a F-14, I am not doing a Tomcat demo, and I following procedures is very important." I did something stupid, I learned from it, I performed the maneuver correctly, and I can laugh about it now.

Show you can learn from your mistakes and grow. Don't make excuses and blame everyone else. Stuff happens. How you handle mistakes is probably more important than the actual mistake in my humble opinion...
 
bike21 said:
I have a slightly odd feeling it's a ruse. That user appeared with all sorts of questions right after the future of JC thread and everyone talking about how we all missed helping newcomers. Coincidence? Maybe, but it they are real we're clearly eager to help.
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Maybe, but you never know if there are some people lurking who were wondering the same thing or might find this thread in the search function. Never hurts to just offer advice and hope for the best.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
It's an integrity check, if nothing else. Since the answer to the question is on a sheet of paper that, if not in front of the hiring board, is supposedly trivially accessible via The Process. Also thanks for the overview because frankly that's something I ought to understand but I grew up in the Wild Wild West of Part 61, ha!

One of the people I'm helping in said Process has a handful of old (FAA, not 141 school, and when I say old I mean early-2000s and gainfully employed with no failures since then) ride failures that do not show up on the website. He is, of course, self-disclosing all of them regardless of whether they show up because failure to do so would gravely imperil his employment.
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Yeah, I did a part 141 from 2001-2003, and there is nothing about it in my PRIA record. Nothing to hide, but there just isn't anything at all.
 
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