buying an airplane at 20.... thoughts?

[gliderboy]

Do it! It'll make you a much better pilot and you'll have a blast. If the money runs short find a partner or sell the plane.

Re: ". I've also found almost every groundloop incident I've seen has been wheel landings so I just stray away from that. If it's windy enough that you need it there's no reason to fly an airplane you're just using for fun anyways. "

I fly an L-19 glider tug and virtually every landing we make is into gusty crosswinds (we're near the ocean). It's been my observation that most ground loops start when people lower the tail. This occurs for two reasons:
1. When the tail is down the AOA increases and lift increases. With the tail up, the AOA is low and wing isn't producing much lift (especially if you raise the flaps as soon as you touch down.) Further, with the tail up, the rudder is very effective, when the tail comes down it is blanketed by the wing and becomes much less effective.

2. Many people don't fully understand the aerodynamic factors acting on the airplane. Some know to put the stick into the wind to prevent the up-wind wing from lifting, but most don't understand that the down-wind aileron can be used to pull the plane straight. This because the down-wind aileron is passing through undisturbed air and because it has a lot of leverage way out there on the end of the wing.

If you can't control the plane as it rolls down the runway with the tail up, you need more training. You should be able to 'fly' the airplane down the runway using only rudder and aileron during a wheel landing.
None of this is particularly difficult, it just takes practice.

 

[hook_dupin]

Want to buy a Champ?

 

[killbilly]

I have now spent the last hour perusing Barnstormers and looking at older taildraggers.

The Aeronca Champs - especially the ones which are lovingly maintained - are about as cute as kittens and I want one. There's also a couple of Piper Colts/Super Colts out there which I have not been familiar with prior to today. Gotta say, they seem like a lot of bang for the buck. I think @Roger Roger mentioned them once as a hidden gem of an airplane, but I can't recall exactly.

I'm closing the deal on selling my motorcycle this week, which will go into funding further flight training. But damn if I don't really want an airplane, a hangar, and someone willing to teach me how to wrench on it.

 

[knot4u]

I have now spent the last hour perusing Barnstormers and looking at older taildraggers.

The Aeronca Champs - especially the ones which are lovingly maintained - are about as cute as kittens and I want one. There's also a couple of Piper Colts/Super Colts out there which I have not been familiar with prior to today. Gotta say, they seem like a lot of bang for the buck. I think @Roger Roger mentioned them once as a hidden gem of an airplane, but I can't recall exactly.

I'm closing the deal on selling my motorcycle this week, which will go into funding further flight training. But damn if I don't really want an airplane, a hangar, and someone willing to teach me how to wrench on it.

Why is it that if someone were to post about a PPL/owner (no CSEL) charging to fly people to different places, not splitting costs but profiting, people here would have many negative responses about lack of training, breaking FARs, unsafe operation, and bringing down the industry, But nobody seems to bat an eye when an aircraft owner without an A/P wants to do their own MX? I'm not talking about the preventative stuff allowed in the FARs, but the heavier stuff such as cable changes, rigging, engine changes, modifications.

 

[Dan208B]

Why is it that if someone were to post about a PPL/owner (no CSEL) charging to fly people to different places, not splitting costs but profiting, people here would have many negative responses about lack of training, breaking FARs, unsafe operation, and bringing down the industry, But nobody seems to bat an eye when an aircraft owner without an A/P wants to do their own MX? I'm not talking about the preventative stuff allowed in the FARs, but the heavier stuff such as rigging, engine changes, modifications.

Remember, almost anything is allowed if supervised properly. I do a great deal of my maintenance this way. I hope people would have enough sense to recognize what is important to be done by someone with a lot more knowledge than them though. I know if I'm flying it I want things done right.

 

[fholbert]

If I was looking for a tail wheel aircraft I'd be looking at the Bellanca Triple Tails. Fast, 4 seats and retractable. The early model triple tails were the first retractable GA aircraft made.

Just click Watch On Viemo

 

[killbilly]

Why is it that if someone were to post about a PPL/owner (no CSEL) charging to fly people to different places, not splitting costs but profiting, people here would have many negative responses about lack of training, breaking FARs, unsafe operation, and bringing down the industry, But nobody seems to bat an eye when an aircraft owner without an A/P wants to do their own MX? I'm not talking about the preventative stuff allowed in the FARs, but the heavier stuff such as cable changes, rigging, engine changes, modifications.

Dunno. I just like turning wrenches.

 

[Runincolorado]

Dunno. I just like turning wrenches.

Maybe money might be better spent at this point becoming an A/P?

 

[hook_dupin]

Maybe money might be better spent at this point becoming an A/P?

I can relate. Its frustrating to me that night A&P programs are few and far between.

 

[Andy5466]

WOW!! I appreciate yal responding and in such detail as well!! So.... yea owning an airplane in general does not make sense financially and i doubt for me that it ever will But what i do no is that sheer amount of joy and experience like @alaskadrifter said will be invaluable and just the freedom of owning your plane alone would be amazing. Yea sure i could spend that money on things like getting a multi engine rating but for my particular goals in aviation actually owning this T craft would significantly boost my resume because at least initially i don't want to just flight instruct and get a job at a regional or fly freight or get on right seat with a charter company i want to fly in Alaska, Utah, Idaho, abroad wherever... but i know where ever i get a job that my stick and rudder skills may be more important than me shooting a good ILS (which i thoroughly enjoy)

@esa17 if i have to have 18 k in the bank to buy an airplane after purchasing it then i guess i will never get a plane!! hahah but i do understand where you are coming from.

@alaskadrifter I think we we are thinking more on the same lines! lol

My good buddy gave me some good advice i think first he said go in with a partner like everyone else but he said i should put a time limit on how long i should own it like say i will sell this bird after two years that way it will make me want to fly it more and there is a foreseeable end in sight for the financial burden.

I want to tell the guy selling the plane that the only way i can pay 10500 is if you annual the plane i think that would be a good idea. But what if on my trip home some major mechanical malfunction happens well then i guess i am just SOL because i am only going to have around 1000 in the bank for unexpected mx to start. I know that is not nearly enough but when all you want to do is fly you will justify anything kinda like i am doing right now ha.


I think its a bad idea that i buy it it is something i want not something i need but i just have this burning desire to own and fly and learn and i have flown 172s for most of my flying career so far and I feel like my piloting skills are suffering all my good buddies have lots of tailwheel time and have the best stories and when i watch them fly there is this just elegant way about how they manipulate the controls and i cant get it out of my head that the reason why is because of the tailwheel stick and rudder flying.

If the plane breaks or i ground loop it or what ever the case then ya know i guess i just made a huge mistake and i will learn from it even though all of yal tried to warn me!! ha

I apologize for my lack or grammar and never capitalizing my "i"

Am i wrong to think that because of the simplicity of this plane that it will cost less to maintain?
@alaskadrifter when you owned your t craft how much if you want to share did you have to spend per month on mx?

 

[xargos]

So I have been wanting to purchase an airplane
Is this a terrible idea?

ONLY if this Taylorcraft has been recovered properly, is in good condition and you can get it cheap it is not a terrible idea.
However IF :

• it is in bad shape
  
• has sub-par maintenance records
  
• run-out engine

I'd recommend you better walk away and keep looking.
While you're at it be aware of phrases like : "Needs a little TLC", "minor corrosion", "2500 TT, fresh prop" etc.
There are some really ugly Taylorcrafts for 17-18.000 while you can get a really nice ones for a little over 20.000
It's buyers market- don't rush - take advantage of it.

 

[knot4u]

Dunno. I just like turning wrenches.

I'll have to admit my experience with small GA aircraft is extremely limited. I've heard even trying to help someone work on their own airplane (supervise) can be a career ender, the A/P has to sign it off. The owner has control of the airplane (access with no supervision). Everytime a pilot with a toolbox starts working on the aircraft they fly beyond what the FARs allow, I've seen this in 135 as well, it puts the mechanics future and possibly the company they fly for in jeopardy. If something bad happens all the FAA and the insurance companies will be able to take to court is paperwork, CVR and FDR data. Everyone with a sign off in the log book will be mustered, and they better have a lawyer.



TLDR, Hire an A/P you trust to take care of your airplane and don't mess with it without supervision. Almost forgot, go fly the damn thing! That's why you bought it.

 

[alaskadrifter]

Is the guy asking $10,500 for a Taylorcraft? I sold mine for $10k and at the time it needed a little TLC fwiw.

 

[Adler]

20 year old with an airplane....should probably buy some plastic covers for the seats.

 

[Andy5466]

Is the guy asking $10,500 for a Taylorcraft? I sold mine for $10k and at the time it needed a little TLC fwiw.

yea he is he lost his medical and it is out of annual and has not flown in about two years but he claims he would get into it and fly it today (easy claim to make over the phone) but yea i was thinking 10500 with a fresh annual... what model t craft did you have model 19?

 

[alaskadrifter]

yea he is he lost his medical and it is out of annual and has not flown in about two years but he claims he would get into it and fly it today (easy claim to make over the phone) but yea i was thinking 10500 with a fresh annual... what model t craft did you have model 19?

All kinds of red flags right there. Run don't walk! I had a BC12D.

 

[chrisreedrules]

If it's too good to be true, it is. Welcome to aviation.

 

[Roger Roger]

I'll have to admit my experience with small GA aircraft is extremely limited. I've heard even trying to help someone work on their own airplane (supervise) can be a career ender, the A/P has to sign it off. The owner has control of the airplane (access with no supervision). Everytime a pilot with a toolbox starts working on the aircraft they fly beyond what the FARs allow, I've seen this in 135 as well, it puts the mechanics future and possibly the company they fly for in jeopardy. If something bad happens all the FAA and the insurance companies will be able to take to court is paperwork, CVR and FDR data. Everyone with a sign off in the log book will be mustered, and they better have a lawyer.



TLDR, Hire an A/P you trust to take care of your airplane and don't mess with it without supervision. Almost forgot, go fly the damn thing! That's why you bought it.

There's horror stories to be found about any kind of business arrangement, but in the small airplane world they're not as prevalent as you seem to suppose. Lots of perfectly functional owner assisted maintenance relationships out there. I'd venture to say that in general the kind of people that make owner assisted mx a nightmare are the same people who are a nightmare to work for anyway. You've been in aviation long enough I'm sure you know some of the stereotypes.

 

[xargos]

10.5 is cheap-good
Says it's recovered and has logs-good.
Out of license-bad.

Can you get a rag/tube mechanic to license it in CO?
If not, walk.

 

[alaskadrifter]

The problem is that it has sat for two years, which can easily lead to corrosion problems in the engine.