buying an airplane at 20.... thoughts?

A

Andy5466

Well-Known Member
So I have been wanting to purchase an airplane as long as i can remember like all aviation enthusiasts but do not want to get in over my head and was looking for some advice from some aircraft owners.

My background:

I am 20 years old in college at a state university. LSU I have a steady job and my school is pretty much taken care of financially wise and I have to pay rent which is only 150/month at the moment gas, food, etc.... I have my private and IR and am working towards my CSEL i have the time and the written just have been looking for the right plane to finish up in (need access to a complex) The reason for wanting to by this plane a 1940 T craft BL 65 is because I really want to fly a tail wheel airplane to make my self a better pilot, to make me more marketable for jobs that require TW time and just for the pure enjoyment of flying low and slow and to build time this winter and spring so maybe that can lead to a job in the summer.

Questions?

How much can i expect to pay for insurance each year not being TW endorsed and having 0 TW time?
MX how much to expect per month on a plane with no electrics? It is just a straight flying machine very simple and for some reason i think that mx would be low? plane rebuilt in 2010 TSMOH 50 oh and its out of annual...
I do not have a hangar to keep it in....
Is this a terrible idea?
I know monthly i will have to pay - plane note, gas, insurance, mx, possible tie down fee instructor to get endorsement... what else?
 
I bought a 150 and a mooney to learn to fly.

First and foremost you need to be ready for an overhaul at any given time. Keep $18k in the bank for that reason.

Second, you need to find at least a shade hangar to keep the plane in.

Third, it's a great way to start a professional pilot career.
 
A straight Tcraft like that with no electrics would be a great first airplane and taildragger. If you can get your endorsement in same type then insurance wouldn't be too bad if you go with a group like the EAA that kinda specializes in insuring stuff like that. You would want to get your tw CFI named on the policy until you get the endorsement, then have yourself added.

Keep us posted! I'm atv the point where I'm looking at my first airplane too but need a more stable job before owning something would make sense. I'm thinking a 140, 170, or Pacer.
 
esa17 said:
I bought a 150 and a mooney to learn to fly.

First and foremost you need to be ready for an overhaul at any given time. Keep $18k in the bank for that reason.

Second, you need to find at least a shade hangar to keep the plane in.

Third, it's a great way to start a professional pilot career.
Click to expand...
An unexpected overhaul grounds a lot of GA planes. I'm looking at a 172 for $60K with three other guys. We are each going to pony up $20K, which will fund our maintenance fund at $20K from day one. Our plan is to keep the fund at $20K at all times. If we have an overhaul, partners will be required to fund their share of $20K within a year, or lose their share and we will sell the share again under the same terms.

If you can't afford the plane and an ill-timed overhaul, you might want to consider partners. I have mixed feelings about a taildragger. While tailwheel time will improve your skills, I'm not sure the risk/reward over time is worth the hassle, especially if you want to take on low time partners.
 
As someone who bought an airplane at 21 years old, I have some thoughts for you:

-Taildragger is great. Just be sure you get good instruction first. And I mean good, not a 3 hour checkout. I've also found almost every groundloop incident I've seen has been wheel landings so I just stray away from that. If it's windy enough that you need it there's no reason to fly an airplane you're just using for fun anyways. Insurance will definitely be a factor here. You may call a few places for a quote before you get too far into this.

-How long do you want to keep the airplane? That's a major factor because I quickly found that in this market, resale is difficult. Don't plan on being able to sell it in a short period of time unless you're willing to take a loss on it. This is a really big issue too if you plan to go find a job flying full-time. Are you going to take the airplane? Airplanes sitting alone for years is not an option.

-I agree with everyone else on the overhaul issue. You may very well do an annual and find a cracked cylinder or cracked case, etc. You need money in the bank for this issue. Otherwise you can plan on parking the airplane for a long time until you can afford to fix it and when airplanes sit, more issues creep up. Maintenance cost wise you can plan on a normal annual to be $500-$2000. On that note you need (reprase, absolutely HAVE to) do a prebuy inspection. I would say if it's out of annual plan on a high-end cost to get it going, perhaps as much as $3000, and that's assuming there's nothing wrong with the engine. How long has it been sitting?

-As far as hangaring goes, I would tell you it's almost required to keep your airplane in good condition. Things will wear out FAST if not. And I don't agree with using a "shade hangar," that really does nothing for you.

-Do you have the money up front to buy the airplane? Don't get yourself involved with payments. You may regret that later when you need the money or have to move on. That's my #1 regret is that I had a large down payment but also made payments for a few years and there were many times that I wished I didn't have that payment to make. Especially early on in a flying career. You need to be able to move anywhere and sometimes devote all your paycheck to living costs. If you get anything from this post, this is it. Don't make that mistake.

It seems like you have thought of most of the costs, but all joking aside, double whatever you're thinking for individual costs. Also the biggest lesson I have learned is don't be cheap about airplanes. Pay up front for things like maintenance and you won't regret it later. It will end up costing you more in the long run if you're cheap now. I totally understand your situation, I did this at your age without a ton of money and it all worked out so I don't think you're crazy but I was also lucky and found a good airplane. My main concerns with yours would be that it's out of annual, if you can't pay cash for it, and that you don't have a hangar. Otherwise, let us know what you end up doing!
 
I've been making a similar consideration and I'll share some of what I have learned:

-280-300 hours per year seems to be the break even point for me on buying a piston-single vs. renting. Depends a bit on the airframe, and obviously a lower-tech option like the Taylorcraft will be cheaper to operate, but still - your per-hour costs (which cover your fixed costs + allowances) add up over time. This gets really interesting when I think about buying a Citabria vs. a Viking (@fholbert ) because my heart wants a Citabria and my head says Viking or Mooney.

-A slightly MORE expensive/desirable airplane can pay off later when you want to sell it and will depreciate less. Since you plan to finance, it MIGHT be a good idea to go with a slightly nicer airplane which has been meticulously maintained. Your interest rate will have a lot to do with this.

-Fabric-covered airplanes like indoor hangars. UV isn't beating them to death while they sit. Somewhat depends on the coating, but that's been repeatedly explained to me.

-I'd consider maybe getting the TW endorsement first, and then buying one. You'll have a much better feel for the airplane before you commit time and money. You may decide the 65hp model isn't enough for you. You might decide, "Y'know, an electrical system would be nice after all."

-Not only should a pre-buy be a must, but have it done by a mech who KNOWS the make and model and ISN'T the mech recommended by the owner.

I'm not going to tell you not to do it - it could very well make sense for you to do it.

But I am going to put the last item delicately, and please take this in the spirit that it is intended: when I was 20, I could sit there and do the math to make the things I wanted (usually motorcycles) make financial sense. The truth was, however, that I really couldn't afford them. I could rationalize the numbers but they weren't realistic and I wasn't being smart about it. Made some bad decisions in my early 20s that took me more than 10 years to rectify. Be smart and realistic about needs vs. wants here.

Better yet, try living with the airplane payment and operating costs in a "pretend" mode for 3 months. Set aside the money you would spend on the loan and fixed costs into a separate account for three months. See if it makes sense. If you can, and you feel strongly about this, then do it. If you realize that it's not so good or you're too financially limited, at least you have a chunk of money set aside that you can put into the TW endorsement and some rental hours.

Good on you for being careful and thinking about it.
 
killbilly said:
But I am going to put the last item delicately, and please take this in the spirit that it is intended: when I was 20, I could sit there and do the math to make the things I wanted (usually motorcycles) make financial sense. The truth was, however, that I really couldn't afford them. I could rationalize the numbers but they weren't realistic and I wasn't being smart about it. Made some bad decisions in my early 20s that took me more than 10 years to rectify. Be smart and realistic about needs vs. wants here.
Click to expand...

I cant agree more. I know I did the same thing and while I was lucky that it did not take 10 years for me to fix, there were some really big lessons to learn. The other part is that beyond the cost, what I wanted at 20 is drastically different than what I want at 30. While I am sure this never fully changes with years, I would like to think it settles once there is a partner/family involved. I have been contemplating also buying an aircraft but running through the real numbers of cost, I have found it better to wait until some other items come through (mainly the GF becomes the wife and has her IR/MEL). I have been lucky to have a few places around here that rent anything from a 152 up to a PA44 with almost everything in between. It is nice to be able to pay that hourly rate and be done with it. Or change aircraft for different missions.

On the other hand, it is nice to have your own aircraft that no one else uses....
 
So here's my .02 (other than, "don't do it".)... Do you love flying? I'm sure you do. After all, no one wants to buy an airplane if they aren't absolutely nuts about flying. What did you love to do when you were 10 years old? Do you still love to do that thing at 20? Do you think owning an airplane is what 30 year old you is going to want in the future? An airplane is a huge responsibility. While I don't doubt that you could handle it, I have to ask myself if some of the responsibility and financial burden of owning an airplane is something a young man in your shoes is going to want as you go through these coming years. If it's just disposable income then sure, go for it. If you are financing it, then absolutely not. That's just senseless debt at such a young age in my opinion. Not to mention in order to actually make owning an airplane enjoyable, you need to fly it regularly. And that gets costly too.
 
As someone who has owned a Taylorcraft before make sure to have a competent Taylorcraft mechanic give it a thorough inspection, especially the spars. I will go against the grain and say that neither hangar nor insurance are necessary. Of course it is a risk, just make sure to get some really good instruction and stay conservative in your decision making until your skills outmatch the airplanes performance. I learned more from flying that Taylorcraft than from any instructor! The freedom of having your own aircraft to use to go where ever whenever is amazing. I still regret selling her, but it was time to move on and I am now in the market for a Pacer.
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Another thing to note, while having a Taylorcraft would be fun, is it really going to get you where you need to go career wise? Sounds like you want to be a professional pilot and the money could be spent on Multi XC/IFR. Every time I consider buying an airplane (usually a pitts or skybolt) I realize that it would be more of a "this is fun" sort of deal and not a "build time for a career" sort of deal. I try to convince myself that I could fly a ton and build some total time, but I quickly realize I could spend that money getting multi XC or something more desirable. Maybe spend some money on a sizable block of tailwheel time.
 
What kind of relationship do you have with a good, reputable mechanic? My dad has two planes and is club-owner of a 3rd. He's also an A&P IA. If he wasn't a mechanic I don't think he'd own his own planes. There's a lot of MTX costs involved in ownership, and like owning a car or house, things can come up unexpectedly and be expensive.
 
Never owned an airplane, or a boat, or an RV, or any other similar toy. But it seems to me there is there is something to be said for renting one and then throwing the keys back on the counter when you're done.
 
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