But my other instructor said...

Seems like this thread has gone a little astray but I personally hated it when all my students who came from Spain fought me tooth and nail about landing with flaps if there was ANY crosswind.

Their argument was: " If there is wind, using flaps will not be safe while landing."
 
http://www.askacfi.com/download/1


Page 33 of this PDF states "...should be applied PRIOR to ANY SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION or closing of the throttle." Not just while chilling outside of the green.

The POH only mentions "carb heat – AS REQUIRED” on the descent portion of the checklist (page 28 of the PDF). Not “on when outside of the green.” Might be an OK bastardization to use to not over complicate things (and probably good to have on in a descent since you’re not always demanding power making carb ice not that noticeable), but if you deem it is not required in other phases of flight while outside of the green...

If you go from 2500 to the edge of the green, it may be considered a significant reduction, requiring carb heat to be on prior to the movement (and you’re still in the green). If you go from 2500 to 1 RPM out of the green or to near closed, the same carb heat is required prior to the reduction and AS REQUIRED once you get there. If you waited till you’re out of the green for carb heat, you’re too late (should be applied prior to…). Note icing can occur inside the green arch as well (AS REQUIRED).

Sure, before landing, as the checklist says, “Carburetor Heat – ON (apply full heat before closing throttle).” PDF page 28 as well.

Be sure to check your own POH of course, but I’d imagine they’re pretty similar.

I’ve talked to a lot of people that know more than I do that agree. I’ve never been presented any Cessna or Lycoming evidence otherwise. If you’ve got some, pass it along. I’d love to have it.
 
Screw those videos I had a student watching them and all he learned was how to call things like "abeam the numbers" the "key point." I mean common do you really have to change nearly 100 year old language to teach someone how to fly?

There were 4 or 5 other things like this, he ran out of cash though so I didn't get to see the XC side of it. I don't think they are bad in what they accomplish, but it makes teaching very annoying when you don't know the "king" terminology and your student starts busting it out.

Hahaha, yeah, those videos are something else. They couldn't pay me enough to put my mouth on the wing to suck on the stall horn. Back at this old FBO we used to fly out of we did get this kid to wrap his mouth around the pitot tube. He felt like an idiot after, but I think the plane enjoyed it.
 
Most of the times when I heard that phrase it was when a student had just done something that wasn't the best idea and they needed to pass the blame on to someone. Even if it wasn't necessarily true.

One sort of good one was that they didn't need to get a weather briefing because we were going to an airport just under 50 nm away and you only got them when it was over 50 nm away. Obviously he didn't want to go inside and get a briefing.

Other than that I mostly got the whole... My other instructor didn't teach me that... On things that are ridiculously easy.

Like... No one ever taught me that the dashed magenta line meant Class E to the surface or My other instructor said I don't really need to use a flashlight at night to preflight the airplane.
 
I had a student the other day from another CFI only only lesson 3 so I asked the student what he did and he said, "we did these turns and that slow flying thing."
 
Me: (doing an Instrument Checkout on a timed VOR-A approach): Don't forget your timer...

(already instrument rated student): My last instructor told me I didn't have to worry about the timer...

(a little later after I had started to calm down): I've never done a VOR approach... or a circle to land...
 
No kidding I was doing a Stage Check for a Private Pilot applicant the day after Expressjet announced furloughs.

"My instructor said I could be a captain at expressjet two years from now, so I'm pretty much set; and people say you can't make a living as a pilot."

my response

"Didn't express just furlough a ton of pilots?"
 
No kidding I was doing a Stage Check for a Private Pilot applicant the day after Expressjet announced furloughs.

"My instructor said I could be a captain at expressjet two years from now, so I'm pretty much set; and people say you can't make a living as a pilot."

my response

"Didn't express just furlough a ton of pilots?"

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: Newbies
 
Had this happen recently with logging PIC during complex endorsement training. I asked about his logging of his previous flight with his other instructor (no PIC logged). He said his instructor friend said you can't. His instructor friend was the other instructor of which he had only flown twice with at my school.

We ended up talking about it in the Chiefs office and somehow they came to the conclusion of no PIC can be logged. Also the CLE FSDO said it can't be logged some many years ago. Although it really isn't a huge deal, time is time. It all adds up.
 
Had this happen recently with logging PIC during complex endorsement training. I asked about his logging of his previous flight with his other instructor (no PIC logged). He said his instructor friend said you can't. His instructor friend was the other instructor of which he had only flown twice with at my school.

We ended up talking about it in the Chiefs office and somehow they came to the conclusion of no PIC can be logged. Also the CLE FSDO said it can't be logged some many years ago. Although it really isn't a huge deal, time is time. It all adds up.

I guess I'm confused... you do have your students log complex PIC time when they have yet to receive the endorsement?
 
I guess I'm confused... you do have your students log complex PIC time when they have yet to receive the endorsement?


61.51 (e)
Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.
(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.


Here is the way I interperet this reg: If you are not legally allowed to fly the airplane solo (no comlex/high perf. endorsement) then you can not log it as PIC.

(1)(i): You are not the sole manipulator of the controls
(ii): You are not the sole ocpuant
(iii): You technically are not a "required crew member" as it needs to be a single pilot certified airplane
(2): Read the ATP regs.
(3): Self explanitory
(4)(i): Can't be the sole occupant, don't have the endorsement (airship portion doesn't apply, not complex, and no high perf models left IIRC)
(ii): The one and only exception, if you own your own airplane, say a V35, then yes, but we are not talking about this scenario, we are talking about adding the endorsement to an existing certificate
(iii): Again, we are not talking about training for a certificate or rating, so it doesn't apply.


Am I missing something that allows you to log it as PIC? Smacking is allowed if I am.:crazy:
 
61.51 (e)
Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.
(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.


Here is the way I interperet this reg: If you are not legally allowed to fly the airplane solo (no comlex/high perf. endorsement) then you can not log it as PIC.

(1)(i): You are not the sole manipulator of the controls
(ii): You are not the sole ocpuant
(iii): You technically are not a "required crew member" as it needs to be a single pilot certified airplane
(2): Read the ATP regs.
(3): Self explanitory
(4)(i): Can't be the sole occupant, don't have the endorsement (airship portion doesn't apply, not complex, and no high perf models left IIRC)
(ii): The one and only exception, if you own your own airplane, say a V35, then yes, but we are not talking about this scenario, we are talking about adding the endorsement to an existing certificate
(iii): Again, we are not talking about training for a certificate or rating, so it doesn't apply.


Am I missing something that allows you to log it as PIC? Smacking is allowed if I am.:crazy:

Yup, you can log it via the basis of 61.51(e)1i

Ratings are SEL/SES/MEL/MES/IA etc... Endorsements are not ratings, they are endorsements. Acting (aka flying the aircraft solo) is different than logging PIC, which is why 61.51 (e) exists.

So, take for instance me. I have a Private SEL/SES with an instrument ticket and a complex endorsment. There is nothing that stops me from loggint PIC on something such as a PC-12/PA-46T, as long as someone on board can ACT as PIC, and I'm the sole manipulator of the controls
 
Here is the way I interperet this reg: If you are not legally allowed to fly the airplane solo (no comlex/high perf. endorsement) then you can not log it as PIC.

Am I missing something that allows you to log it as PIC? Smacking is allowed if I am.:crazy:

Thats what I thought too. If you can't fly the airplane by yourself then how do you possibly put PIC in your logbook when you are receiving training to fly it???
 
Thats what I thought too. If you can't fly the airplane by yourself then how do you possibly put PIC in your logbook when you are receiving training to fly it???
Because the FAA says so., and has been saying so consistently for years. Logging PIC is an artificial construct that describes time that the FAA says you can log to meet certificate, rating and currency requirements. It has absolutely nothing to do with acting as PIC, or even the authority to act as PIC unless it says so.

Let's start with almost 30 years ago:

==============================
OCT. 28, 1980

WINSTON SCOTT JONES

Dear Mr. Jones:

This is in response to your letter in which you request an interpretation of Section 61.51(2)(c) of the Federal Aviation Regulations, regarding logging of pilot-in-command (PIC) flight time.

Specifically, you ask what time may be logged as PIC time when the pilot in the right seat is a certificated flight instructor (CFI) along for the purpose of instruction and is not a required crewmember, and the pilot in the left seat holds either a private or commercial certificate in an aircraft for which he is rated.

Section 61.51 is a flight-time logging regulation, under which PIC time may be logged by one who is not actually the pilot in command (i.e., not "ultimately" responsible for the aircraft) during that time. This is consistent with the purpose of Section 61.51, which as stated in 61.51(a) is to record aeronautical training and experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate or rating, or the recent flight experience requirements of Section 61.

Section 61.51(c)(2)(i) provides that a private or commercial pilot may log as pilot-in-command time only that flight time during which the pilot--

1. Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he is rated; or

2. Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or

3. Acts as pilot-in-command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Under Section 61.51(c)(2)(iii) a certificated flight instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time during which he or she acts as a flight instructor. Sections 61.51(b)(2)(iii) and (iv) provide for logging of flight instruction and instrument flight instruction received.

Accordingly, two or more pilots may each log PIC time for the same flight time. For example, a pilot who is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which he or she is rated may log that time as PIC time under 61.51(c)(2)(i) while receiving instruction, and the instructor may log that same time as PIC time under 61.51(c)(2)(iii).

There is no provision in the FAR's for logging of "dual" flight time; however, we assume that you are referring to logging time as instruction received. Section 61.51(b)(2)(iii) and (iv) allow flight instruction and instrument instruction received time to be recorded. There is nothing in the FAR's which prevents a pilot from logging the same time as both instruction received and PIC time, as long as each requirement is met. The pilot may also log the same time as instrument instruction. Note, though, that one hour of flight logged both as one hour of PIC and one hour of instruction received still adds up to only one hour total flight time.

You request interpretations of these regulations for situations in which:

1. The purpose of the flight is instruction in advanced maneuvers.

2. The purpose of the flight is simulated instrument instruction in actual VFR conditions.

3. The purpose of the flight is instrument instruction actual IFR conditions.

4. The pilot in the left seat is not current in the aircraft or in the conditions of flight.

5. The purpose of the flight is transition from tricycle to conventional landing gear.

6. The purpose of the flight is obtaining logbook endorsement authorizing operation of a high performance aircraft, as required by FAR 61.31(e).

7. The purpose of the flight is transition to a different type aircraft of the same category and class for which the left seat pilot is rated and a type rating is not required.

In each situation, the CFI may log PIC time for all flight time during which she or he acts as flight instructor. The pilot receiving instruction may also log PIC time in each of these situations, as the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which she or he is rated. Specifically, neither the currency requirements of situation 4 nor the log book endorsement of situation 6 are ratings within the meaning of Section 61.51. "Rating" as used in that section refers to the rating in categories, classes, and types, as listed in Section 61.5, which are placed on pilot certificates.

We trust that this discussion answers your questions.

Sincerely,

EDWARD P. FABERMAN
Acting Assistant Chief Counsel
==============================

...and lets' end off with less than 2 months ago: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org.../interpretations/data/interps/2009/Herman.pdf
 
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