Busting Airspace

Good afternoon, I know this has been covered but I just wanted to clarify something specific.. I was in contact with my local class delta airport 10 miles out inbound to land. Overlying the airport is a class Charlie airspace that starts at 1200 feet. I believe I ascended into that airspace for about a minute before realizing and immediately descending. I went up about 70 feet (1270MsL) into the airspace. During this I was in contact with the underlying class D airport who said nothing about it. My question is: since I busted the Charlie, would the tower of that class Charlie airport get in contact with my class d tower to give me a number? If not, how would he give me that number? I didn't receive anything, but when I went home I filed an ASRS form to be safe. Do you think I have something to worry about? Thank you for your time!
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
File an ASRS is always a good idea, so good you did that. Especially since it was an innocent error. But i don't know if 70 feet would even be noticed necessarily. If it was an issue, I imagine the RAPCON controller would've queried the tower to see if they were talking to you, based on your position and altitude.

Sounds like Yuma :)
 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
You can practice filing a NASA form or forget about it, no one will care about 70'. Seriously. You can breathe easy :).
 

gotWXdagain

Polished Member
File an ASRS is always a good idea, so good you did that. Especially since it was an innocent error. But i don't know if 70 feet would even be noticed necessarily. If it was an issue, I imagine the RAPCON controller would've queried the tower to see if they were talking to you, based on your position and altitude.

Sounds like Yuma :)
No Charlie around NYL. And unless you're actively about to hit something AND the controller is a trainee with someone else watching over him, they don't really seem to care.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Altitude readout is good +/- 300’. If you were 70’ into their airspace who would know except you? Don’t admit to anything!
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
No Charlie around NYL. And unless you're actively about to hit something AND the controller is a trainee with someone else watching over him, they don't really seem to care.
The mindset must've changed then. If you weren't below 1200 or so by 5 miles out, they used to get pissed due to the overhead pattern for the mains
 

EAD

Well-Known Member
The mindset must've changed then. If you weren't below 1200 or so by 5 miles out, they used to get pissed due to the overhead pattern for the mains
That hasn't changed, at least as of February of this year...
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Unless you do it blatant, like climb up to 3500 when the floor is 3000 and fly around for a while at that altitude, we don't care unless you almost hit someone. Besides, you don't need clearance to enter a Class C, just radio comms with ATC.
 
Last edited:

gotWXdagain

Polished Member
The mindset must've changed then. If you weren't below 1200 or so by 5 miles out, they used to get pissed due to the overhead pattern for the mains
Well they still have that, but each time approach has given it to me, tower has taken it away and given me unrestricted.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Well they still have that, but each time approach has given it to me, tower has taken it away and given me unrestricted.
I wouldn't figure it'd be a requirement if there is no one in or approaching the overhead; or otherwise beating up the pattern in closed traffic that RATCF may not be aware of, so they issue the restriction as a matter of course rules, and tower keeps it or cancels it as needed.
 

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
NYL is like two Class Ds operating directly on top of each other. They also give mil traffic the restrictions in the opposite direction until you switch tower. For reference, the initial for the overhead is at 4000' (might as well be outer space compared to standard initials) and the break is at 2200'MSL (also outer space). All in all, I am very happy with the job that the controllers there do. Add another scheduled airline service or biggish flight school and it could have enough traffic to make it a Class C, except that the shelf would be smooshed between Mexico, the 2301, and a very busy VFR corridor.

The fun part though is that you have to stay BELOW the civ pattern until outside the pattern for 8/26 and 17/35. The things I do for my country...:D

As for the OP, your XPDR may or may not have even changed what altitude it was reporting with such a small excursion.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
The
Good afternoon, I know this has been covered but I just wanted to clarify something specific.. I was in contact with my local class delta airport 10 miles out inbound to land. Overlying the airport is a class Charlie airspace that starts at 1200 feet. I believe I ascended into that airspace for about a minute before realizing and immediately descending. I went up about 70 feet (1270MsL) into the airspace. During this I was in contact with the underlying class D airport who said nothing about it. My question is: since I busted the Charlie, would the tower of that class Charlie airport get in contact with my class d tower to give me a number? If not, how would he give me that number? I didn't receive anything, but when I went home I filed an ASRS form to be safe. Do you think I have something to worry about? Thank you for your time!
Not a certainty, but chances are better than even, (1) if your Class C incursion caused a problem, the Tower would have said something and (2) if you didn't hear anything yet, you won't.

Based on my experience, it would have been either TRACON calling the Tower to say, "Who the hell was that in my airspace? Give him a number" or some kind of pre-arrangement between TRACON and Tower for Tower to watch for common incursions.
 

gotWXdagain

Polished Member
NYL is like two Class Ds operating directly on top of each other. They also give mil traffic the restrictions in the opposite direction until you switch tower. For reference, the initial for the overhead is at 4000' (might as well be outer space compared to standard initials) and the break is at 2200'MSL (also outer space). All in all, I am very happy with the job that the controllers there do. Add another scheduled airline service or biggish flight school and it could have enough traffic to make it a Class C, except that the shelf would be smooshed between Mexico, the 2301, and a very busy VFR corridor.

The fun part though is that you have to stay BELOW the civ pattern until outside the pattern for 8/26 and 17/35. The things I do for my country...:D

As for the OP, your XPDR may or may not have even changed what altitude it was reporting with such a small excursion.
You based on the MCAS side? I float down there a bit, be there next week actually. Mostly the controllers are great and easy to work with, but one night they tried to launch me off 8 as I watched a military VSTOL approach the 21s. Had I accepted the clearance, the results wouldn't have been pretty, and as soon as I questioned it a different voice came on and told me to hold position. Yeeeaaaahhhhh...
 

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
You based on the MCAS side? I float down there a bit, be there next week actually. Mostly the controllers are great and easy to work with, but one night they tried to launch me off 8 as I watched a military VSTOL approach the 21s. Had I accepted the clearance, the results wouldn't have been pretty, and as soon as I questioned it a different voice came on and told me to hold position. Yeeeaaaahhhhh...
Not stationed there but it is a bit of a home away from home. I’ll be around for the next several weeks. It’s just a reality at bases that the person who you’re talking to most of the time isn’t qualified to be doing so, but they’re working on it. You usually aren’t even done thinking “well that doesn’t make sense” before someone with a much more authoritative voice is overriding on the frequency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Not stationed there but it is a bit of a home away from home. I’ll be around for the next several weeks. It’s just a reality at bases that the person who you’re talking to most of the time isn’t qualified to be doing so, but they’re working on it. You usually aren’t even done thinking “well that doesn’t make sense” before someone with a much more authoritative voice is overriding on the frequency.
Is MAG-13 half and half F-35s and AV-8s now in the VMAs?
 
Last edited:

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
Is MAG-13 half and half F-35s and AV-8s now in the VMAs?
Technically, the F-35s are in VMFAs, but yes it’s half and half of each. I don’t know how many jets they’re calling a squadron over at the unicorn barns though.

I was going to plead opsec until I realized the MAG-13 website has it out in the open.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Technically, the F-35s are in VMFAs, but yes it’s half and half of each. I don’t know how many jets they’re calling a squadron over at the unicorn barns though.

I was going to plead opsec until I realized the MAG-13 website has it out in the open.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Its open source, i just didnt know what the latest units to convert are. 311 the last holdout there?

I forgot that theyre indeed VMFAs now.

121 was out there, but i think they moved to Iwakuni.
 
Top