Buffer zones for En Route hand offs

Screaming_Eagle_ATC

Screaming_Eagle_ATC

Well-Known Member
I apologize for my absence, its been entirely too long. I was reviewing section 5-14-5 i believe of the .65. It occured to me that while the book seems to have high sectors starting at FL 180 I know that Jackson Lo in memphis center goes up to FL 230. How often do high sectors start above FL 180? Do any of you set your buffers beyond the numbers in the .65 for beter view of handoffs?
 
In my center, most of the low sectors end at FL230. The places that differ are that way for departure/arrival flow ease and usually have low/high/ultra high due to sequencing aircraft for multiple airports in the same geographical area. As for the buffers, if a low/high sector in my center is handing off an airplane to me, it is automated, and I can therefore see it whenever they flash it at me, even if it is 10-15,000 feet away from my airspace. We also have auto handoff capabilities with the other US centers and all (as far as I am aware, definitely in my area) of the approach controls below us. Our limited datablock buffer is usually 1200 feet outside our altitude stratum, but we /should/ have the handoff long before the plane gets there.
 
Our low is FL280 and below, since 95% of our traffic runs in RVSM airspace.

All depends on what fits the local traffic pattern best
 
The section you referenced has to do with altitude filters on our radar scope. As far as stratification of sectors is concerned, in my facility a low altitude sector is the floor of Class E to F230, or in some cases that altitude above what is delegated to the approach control (usually sfc to 10,000), high altitude is F240-F600, or in the instances of ultra-high sectors, which would own F320 and above I believe. Obviously, an approach controller does not need to see traffic at F280, so those targets are filtered from their scope. That is what 5-14-5 is concerned with. Standard altitude filters for a sector are determined by SOP.

I have to do the research (which I am currently looking for), but I believe the logic of splitting the sectors at F230/F240 has to do with the transition between Mach Number and Indicated Airspeed. Perhaps an airline pilot could answer where that transition occurs, because I am not sure.

Edit: A quick google search reveals that the transition occurs differently by type, but that a typical altitude for transition from IAS to Mach would be F245 and a transition back to indicated would occur at F235

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, because now I am curious.
 
S60- thats really interesting that you have a completely automated handoff system.Out of ignorance why would someone hand off with 10-15 thousand feet to go? Wouldn't it be more prudent to PVD at that point?
 
Greg the only thing i think i know about that is you cannot ask a pilot to adjust based on mach number below FL240. The reasoning behind that would be really interesting to know!
 
greg1016 said:
Edit: A quick google search reveals that the transition occurs differently by type, but that a typical altitude for transition from IAS to Mach would be F245 and a transition back to indicated would occur at F235

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, because now I am curious.
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That seem convuluted to be switching for such a small block altitude. That makes me very curious.
 
Screaming_Eagle_ATC said:
S60- thats really interesting that you have a completely automated handoff system.Out of ignorance why would someone hand off with 10-15 thousand feet to go? Wouldn't it be more prudent to PVD at that point?
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To be clear, the hand-off initiation occurs automatically, the receiving controller doesn't have to accept the hand-off immediately, but now s/he knows the aircraft is coming. Additionally, even after the hand-off is accepted, the previous controller has to give the frequency change to the aircraft, and would only do so when the aircraft is clear of all other traffic in his/her sector. In my area's radar sector, most of the aircraft are in free track, so we have to initiate the hand off (flash) manually anyway.
 
Screaming_Eagle_ATC said:
That seem convuluted to be switching for such a small block altitude. That makes me very curious.
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Like I said, I don't know. The only aircraft I ever work that are below F250 are prop planes that usually never transition to mach speed at all. Hence the qualifier "a quick google search"
 
greg1016 said:
To be clear, the hand-off initiation occurs automatically, the receiving controller doesn't have to accept the hand-off immediately, but now s/he knows the aircraft is coming. Additionally, even after the hand-off is accepted, the previous controller has to give the frequency change to the aircraft, and would only do so when the aircraft is clear of all other traffic in his/her sector. In my area's radar sector, most of the aircraft are in free track, so we have to initiate the hand off (flash) manually anyway.
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Fair enough.... It sounds like handing off everything but comms until free of all Conflicts, has the potential to be an APPREQ hell. Especially If Host or ERAM is initating the handoff with out being prompted. But i wouldnt know, not yet anyway.
 
Screaming_Eagle_ATC

A hand-off does not imply control. Even once an aircraft is handed off and communications switched, the aircraft is not your control for headings or altitude changes (edit: or anything else for that matter) until it is 3 miles inside the boundary of your airspace, unless you call up the adjacent sector and specifically request control.

Where are you headed?
 
I'm not headed anywhere yet... but once i leave Kent State, I'd really like to go to an enroute facility... like ZOB center or ZLA. But i don't have any control over that :). Just taking it day by day.
 
Bernoulli Fan Should be able to tell you about Cali, and since he domestic, he might be able to provide more specific insight. The radar sectors that I will eventually work are stratified 5000-F600, it is the adjacent sectors and the books that are the basis for my limited knowledge. no vertical hand-offs for me.
 
I feel like you've said this before, and i apologize for not knowing. But you work and Oceanic sector in NY correct? I hear that can be a lot of fun both on the atlantic and pacific sides. Did you go into the academy for enroute, or work your way into it from the teminal side?
 
Applied off the street, picked PA/NY as geo prefs, and terminal and en route options, picked up by zny and assigned to oceanic. Oceanic is definitely a different animal, but I like it. The downside is that training is slow. Classmates that went to other centers are much closer to being fully certified since they don't have to learn a third job. Unfortunately, not too many more hiring opportunities for OTS applicants, my classmates are the last ones at the center that I know of hired off the street. I don't know if Kent State has a CTI school, but if it doesn't I seriously suggest looking into Beaver County or joining the military.
 
I would LOVE! ZLA that is one hell of a center from what I hear.... especially when you think about how many different chuncks of that airspace used to be their own seperate facilities. Is the facility actually in LA? I've spent some time in and around the city and love it. West hollywood however, seems like another planet sometimes. I digress.
 
Screaming_Eagle_ATC said:
I would LOVE! ZLA that is one hell of a center from what I hear.... especially when you think about how many different chuncks of that airspace used to be their own seperate facilities. Is the facility actually in LA? I've spent some time in and around the city and love it. West hollywood however, seems like another planet sometimes. I digress.
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Well, I got some bad news for you on the location anyway: Here it is!
 
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