Boeing's new Phantom Eye

surreal1221 said:
Gotta keep that military industrial complex nice and strong.
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Asymmetric warfare brings new demands for new vehicles. One of the problems if forward basing these eyes in the skies vehicles. The other demands are for immediate information with a history and unmanned. What is your solution?
 
Orange Anchor said:
What is your solution?
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Stop plundering the world's resources in order act like spoiled (fat, diabetic) children thereby causing every dirt farmer everywhere to want us all dead.

In all earnestness, ask yourself: What sort of "free" society needs to spy on everyone and everything to see whether they might be acting Against Us? Is that the White Hats?
 
Boris Badenov said:
In all earnestness, ask yourself: What sort of "free" society needs to spy on everyone and everything to see whether they might be acting Against Us? Is that the White Hats?
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I am once again missing something. This is a vehicle intended for the combat theatre although it can and probably will have other applications. The older versions of the U-2 became TR-1s for NASA.
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Early versions of Global Hawk are being recycled into other non-combat agencies such as NASA.
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In the case of the Global Hawk, it was on station within 37hrs after the Haiti quake providing aerial images that could be gained nowhere else. It was DAYS later that the U-2 and other assets arise.

But yes, we civilians are being watched. Another thread on the tax-weenies using google-earth to find unapproved pools is an example.

I guess I was just surprised about the technology being reduced to another money consuming military toy done only to support the 'military industrial complex.' Furthermore... ummm...sorry. Gotta go... someone calling on my GPS equipped cellphone.
 
I just saw the NASA ER-2 down in Ellington that they've been using to spot the BP oil slick, using IR and UV sensors.

So, the 'spy' planes have a lot more utility than invading your privacy.
 
Maybe the US should rely less on hyper-technology and more on human resources... Maybe people should start accepting that you don't win a war by carpet-bombing everything, and that humint is at the heart of everything. Turning Afghanistan into a smoking car park will not solve the problem.
But as long as these companies keep the game going so they can sell more and more....
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
you don't win a war by carpet-bombing everything, and that humint is at the heart of everything. Turning Afghanistan into a smoking car park will not solve the problem.
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Do you have any idea what is actually happening militarily in Afghanistan?

Nothing even remotely like "carpet bombing" has taken place since Desert Storm in Kuwait and Iraq in 1991.
 
Really ??? Do you ??? Should I remind you of the Kunduz "accident" where over 150 civilians were killed in november of 2001 by a B52 run ? This is one among many, many examples.
Most of the south of Afghanistan was carpet-bombed in late 2001, and carpet-bombing pretty much defines the US military doctrine since the 1940's.
I have been 4 or 5 times to Afghanistan and Irak since 2002, at time for several months, so yes I tend to think to know what I am talking about...
And just so we're clear, I am not judging the Afghanistan war or the US (or ours) presence there
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
Really ??? Do you ??? Should I remind you of the Kunduz "accident" where over 150 civilians were killed in november of 2001 by a B52 run ? This is one among many, many examples.
Most of the south of Afghanistan was carpet-bombed in late 2001, and carpet-bombing pretty much defines the US military doctrine since the 1940's.
I have been 4 or 5 times to Afghanistan and Irak since 2002, at time for several months, so yes I tend to think to know what I am talking about...
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I would think more precise information and a better picture of what IS happening would be useful.

As a FAC a long time ago, I learned that much like a cop on the beat, you had to know what was the USUAL so you could see the UNUSUAL. 10 water buffalo normally in a field. Now 20? Now none? What changed and why?

Irak? And you have been to IRAK many times? In what capacity did you leave Pau and 2002 is not exactly yesterday. Just asking.
 
I was there as a war reporter, sir, and no matter the time frame, as a was not referring to yesterday but to an historical pattern. And sorry, but 2002 is yesterday.

Once again I have the utmost respect for the men and women who fought there and with whom I shared time.

One of the many links : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1631533.stm where Rear Admiral John Stufflebeem, deputy director of operations for the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters that the B-52s were carpet bombing targets "all over the country, including Taliban forces in the north."

Edit : OrangeAnchor why do you mention Pau ? Or is it a typo ? I'm not from Pau...
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
I was there as a war reporter, sir, and no matter the time frame, as a was not referring to yesterday but to an historical pattern. And sorry, but 2002 is yesterday.
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Not really. Admins have changed. The goals have changed. The world has changed. So 2002 is actually a bit of history. And your link is to an article in 2001.

Once again I have the utmost respect for the men and women who fought there and with whom I shared time.;
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I did not nor do I now doubt that.

Edit : OrangeAnchor why do you mention Pau ? Or is it a typo ? I'm not from Pau...
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Is not LFBP Pau? It's in your location identifier.
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
Really ??? Do you ??? Should I remind you of the Kunduz "accident" where over 150 civilians were killed in november of 2001 by a B52 run ? This is one among many, many examples.
Most of the south of Afghanistan was carpet-bombed in late 2001, and carpet-bombing pretty much defines the US military doctrine since the 1940's.
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Yes, actually I do. I was there, too. I'm an active USAF F-15E pilot who has flown combat sorties in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I'll be going back in the future, too.

And, I will tell you in black and white, perfectly clear and unmistakeable terms that "carpet bombing" is not a tactic that is being used. Period.

I happen to know something about "US Military Doctrine", and what you saw in the 1940s bears no relation to what is occurring currently.

If you really want to get into doctrine being used in Afghanistan and Iraq, read up on Joint Publication 3-09.3. If you'd like to speak about specifics of weapon employment from aircraft after you've read up on Close Air Support, I'd be more than happy to discuss it. But, so long as you are insisting that "carpet bombing" is the primary tactic, I don't think that such discussion would do a whole lot of good.
 
Orange Anchor said:
Asymmetric warfare brings new demands for new vehicles. One of the problems if forward basing these eyes in the skies vehicles. The other demands are for immediate information with a history and unmanned. What is your solution?
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I know MANY solutions and platforms that we currently deploy just fine. Not sure if you have had any operational experience with aviation assets over the past decade, but we're doing pretty good with our tools - in my humble opinion of course.

That said, you do recognize that I didn't challenge it's mission (or whatever Boeing is selling it as). Rather, simply, that I'm no fan of more wasteful platforms when we have service members with life changing health issues associated with spreading Democracy (for Muslims - yet we won't allow them to build a Community Center in New York City, etc.) who are going to continue to get short-changed to communities demanding these cool new War Toys.

This is exactly what Gates is talking about, spending money on projects that are a waste when the funds can be better spent elsewhere within the Defense community. Coming from a Republican much less.
 
surreal1221 said:
This is exactly what Gates is talking about, spending money on projects that are a waste when the funds can be better spent elsewhere within the Defense community. Coming from a Republican much less.
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Is Phantom Eye paid for by a government contract, or out of Boeing's pocket?
 
Don't know honestly. Appears Boeing is obviously paying for their own production / R&D costs, but that's always how it has been. At least with these hyper-technology toys.

But if WE (the Defense Community) use it, you can be sure we'll receive a bill for it's services.

Boeing (or any Defense contractor) doesn't do this R&D (and production) for free.
 
surreal1221 said:
I know MANY solutions and platforms that we currently deploy just fine. Not sure if you have had any operational experience with aviation assets over the past decade, but we're doing pretty good with our tools - in my humble opinion of course.
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NO I do not have direct experience but I do read. I understand that the British are still using its Canberra or have just retired it. And after attending a Global Hawk briefing it was made quite clear that manned aircraft are not really suitable for today's HALE missions, especially when we are talking about 4-10 day sorties.

Rather, simply, that I'm no fan of more wasteful platforms when we have service members with life changing health issues associated with spreading Democracy (for Muslims - yet we won't allow them to build a Community Center in New York City, etc.)
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subject, subject, subject.

who are going to continue to get short-changed to communities demanding these cool new War Toys.
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I think the bolded summarizes your opinion quite succinctly.
 
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