Boeing vs Airbus and Speed Brakes

[form810]

Uh, maybe... then again, we could all just, you know, fly the airplane?!? Numbers really don't matter on short final... Only airflow. Which should be -in a properly trained aviator- so well understood as to be intuitive... verging on instinctual.

Green safeguards your skein - in the classical sense of fate. (And yes, I do understand that for many of you, the values of classical humanism are what you really mean by "woke", even though you don't know that.)

Obey your published limits and your exalted management (who possess the excellence to understand "the public"), 'cause they know best. They've seen the stats! And if you leave that burger on the grill more than 90 seconds at 400°, it might burn and cost your company a few cents of marginal profit. Still, if you're sitting in a pilot seat... just fly the airplane!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Not using them as speed brakes if your already on speed and just using them to increase descent rate.

Now you’re arguing. You ARE using them as a speed brake, by using additional flaps 40 to get down quicker without increasing airspeed (that is the intent of what spoilers do when using speed brakes). And then when “done” , going back to flaps 30 as you don’t need that additional drag.

You literally and purposefully used flaps 40 only as a speed brake to allow you to descent steeper without increasing airspeed. And you know you did, because then you take it away and go back to flaps 30 when back on glideslope.

How is this an argument?!

 

[roundout]

 

[arkflyr]

Now you’re arguing. You ARE using them as a speed brake, by using additional flaps 40 to get down quicker without increasing airspeed (that is the intent of what spoilers do when using speed brakes). And then when “done” , going back to flaps 30 as you don’t need that additional drag.

You literally and purposefully used flaps 40 only as a speed brake to allow you to descent steeper without increasing airspeed. And you know you did, because then you take it away and go back to flaps 30 when back on glideslope.

How is this an argument?!

You seem to be the one getting stressed about this, defending your “techcedure”.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You seem to be the one getting stressed about this, defending your “techcedure”.

Without even knowing where you work, I’m gonna guess Southwest.

Procedure* at our shop. Your poor technique won’t fly when it violates the FH.

 

[derg]

You seem to be the one getting stressed about this, defending your “techcedure”.

Exactly.

There is technique and there is procedure. Both have to be clearly delineated. Otherwise, put your big boy pants on and put your 'technique' in the book and proclaim it procedure.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Yeah, I haven't done a lot of 40's either. I think I may have had an actual good landing in a 9ER, but I actually have no idea how to tell what variant I am flying without actually looking up the tail. So it was prob an 800. It is strange, but any flap setting, and GW, I always grease the MAX. I don't understand it. I always destroy everyone present in a 9ER, regardless of technique. Like multiple little old ladies who will never walk again.

I just mix up my landings every time. I do a 15, 30 then a 40. Sometimes I have to be a bit strategic about it. I’ve done all 3 in a day in SE. Its fun mixing it up.


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[arkflyr]

Without even knowing where you work, I’m gonna guess Southwest.

Procedure* at our shop. Your poor technique won’t fly when it violates the FH.

I think you need to relax a bit, and remember that flaps are designed to allow a steeper descents at lower airspeeds.

Goodnight.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I think you need to relax a bit, and remember that flaps are designed to allow a steeper descents at lower airspeeds.

View attachment 70807

Goodnight.

I’ll follow our own Flight Handbook, but thanks Southwest guy.

Have a great night!

 

[///AMG]

Haha whoa, didn’t realize i was about to send us down this rabbit hole. Wasn’t intending to advocate for this.....it is certainly not procedure, nor would I call it anything other than poor energy management on a typical approach. I would argue, as a seasoned sea lawyer (which may or may not be a relevant qualification), that it isn’t “using flaps as a speed brake”. That would imply dumping flaps early to bleed speed, which is not what i am talking about.

 

[phill1174]

I’m trying to understand how feathers got ruffled so easily over a technique. We can go to flaps 30 temporarily and back to 25 at brown on the 75/76. I haven’t seen it happen much but it’s a tool in the toolbox. Wait until SoCal leaves you high going into ONT and you’re going gear down at 8000’

 

[Crockrocket94]

Because CC doesn't like it its automatically a bad thing.

You know, Ive flown with some guys who have done the 40-30 thing. Someguys just rerun the numbers for 40 and do that. It works. Nothing says you CANT do it... also the SFP thing, its just normal in our 800s so its not discussed.

Also, you (CC) must not have flown into MCO much when they are landing north, going to the east complex and they keep you high and fast and then dump you and say GOOD LUCK! with a 40 knot tailwind at 7000 feet 25 miles from the airport...

 

[EIR]

I’m trying to understand how feathers got ruffled so easily over a technique. We can go to flaps 30 temporarily and back to 25 at brown on the 75/76. I haven’t seen it happen much but it’s a tool in the toolbox. Wait until SoCal leaves you high going into ONT and you’re going gear down at 8000’

This is exactly what I was going to say. ONT is a great example of thinking outside of the box when trying to slow and configure. Throw in a light 75 and you'll be struggling to be stable at 1000'/500'.

 

[///AMG]

also the SFP thing, its just normal in our 800s so its not discussed.

I think this might just be a quirk of our shop. Probably has some historical relevance that has long since passed (it was probably a big deal for our ops when it arrived), since most all of ours are SFP as well. I picture it being kind of like when I showed up to F/A-18's, and all the old sim guys were like "You won't get into an unrecoverable falling leaf departure with this new FCS software EPROM 10.7.....and man, this jet is so great it has an APU so you don't need a huffer to start on cross countries!!!" Knowing what I would know later, I would have told them that 1981 was calling, looking for an F-4 driver from El Toro that still had hair on the top of his head.

 

[DPApilot]

“Slow down to go down” (if you can).

I don’t fly ‘em but planning to go back to Flaps 30 from already selecting Flaps 40 (or back to CONF 3 from CONF 4 if you prefer) just seems … weird?

Like sunshine during a thunderstorm kind of weird. Not necessarily DOOOM, but like you might be lawyering-around some stabilized approach criteria, or that the automation or a checklist will become confused.

Asking across different airlines: does your shop have a policy about planning to reverse flaps?

I’ve gone to Config 3 from Full once. We were planning on a Full landing, but the gusts that were not forecasted decided that wasn’t a good idea. Had run both numbers just to be safe and went back to 3 as a precaution. Now to go to a higher flap value just to get down seems dumb to me, but I only know Airbus. I can’t say which is correct to do, nor will I say it’s wrong.

 

[scooter2525]

Flaps 35 all day.

 

[BobDDuck]

Flaps 35 all day.

Real pilots use dial-a-flap.

 

[derg]

Real pilots use dial-a-flap.

For landing?

 

[BobDDuck]

For landing?

I mean... why not? No more ridiculous than the angsty discussion going on now about 73 kine 'tings.

 

[derg]

I mean... why not? No more ridiculous than the angsty discussion going on now about 73 kine 'tings.

Ya brah!

("U know dat hamburger… rice… gray-VEE…Egg…")