Boeing pushes for Max10 exemption

[Minuteman]

Question: Do all SWA interiors look like the bartender is going to pop-up from behind the counter with a dusting of coke on their nose now?

 

[knot4u]

Question: Do all SWA interiors look like the bartender is going to pop-up from behind the counter with a dusting of coke on their nose now?

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Why is there a barf bag in a pocket clearly placarded for "Literature Only"?

 

[arkflyr]

Question: Do all SWA interiors look like the bartender is going to pop-up from behind the counter with a dusting of coke on their nose now?

Just the MAX and the 800 if the flight attendants know how to hack the cabin lighting panel.

And the best looking Boeing narrow body was the 727.

 

[tcco94]

Question: Do all SWA interiors look like the bartender is going to pop-up from behind the counter with a dusting of coke on their nose now?

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You wouldn’t get it. You don’t LUV the atmosphere like the rest of the cattle pushing eachother to not sit in the middle row because they clicked check in 3 seconds too late and got boarding priority C809

 

[form810]

No, no it is not.

This isn't 4chan.

Ok, sure. But 4 chan has certainly had its desired effect if you really think that "profit = progress". Carry on.

 

[form810]

Boeing vs Airbi... ...

Meh, you 121 drivers make me chuckle with your religious fervor regarding Boeing vs Airbi.

Ever seen a "new" Cessna jet? Each one has particular, but weirdly-placed similarities to most of its predecessors. The asymmetric parallelism of "new" Cessna jets is a direct derivative of how many extra parts Textron had left over in the warehouse after building all their previous jet models.

 

[///AMG]

I should probably recuse myself from this.....of my 3 jobs, 2 are full time, one of which is "all Boeing" (the planes say so on the side), and the other rhymes with "is Boeing". So there is that To the conspiracy theorists out there, no, I don't work anything close to being related to airliners at the second one.

 

[form810]

There was no time for a clean sheet design. That can easily be an 8 year ordeal. Airbus upped the ante with the NEO for the A320 family. Boeing had no choice but to do the same with the 737. A clean slate design would have meant that Boeing would have been out of the fuel efficient domestic narrowbody market for 8 years (a commercial death spell).

I don't blame for making the MAX. I do have a problem with how they did it. The timeline came first, along with no changes to type rating. Those two things set up the disaster for everything that followed. Regardless, the MAX problem is solved. MCAS is a non event now (and come at me, but ...

There is ALWAYS time to do the right thing. When you DON'T do the right thing, time tends to wain fast, and/or bad things tend rapidly to increase in frequency.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

There is ALWAYS time to do the right thing. When you DON'T do the right thing, time tends to wain fast, and/or bad things tend to rapidly increase in frequency.

There was no such thing as the “right thing” when it came to the response to the 320NEO. The only reasonable response was the 737MAX. Doing a clean sheet design would have meant Airbus gained the sole dominance of narrowbody fleets for this past decade and longer. Again, I don’t blame Boeing for making the MAX. It’s how they went about it, that was the problem.

 

[form810]

I'll agree that Boeing stretched the 737 way past it's intended design. As for improvements, Boeing made all of its major improvements to the 737, as the NG model, not the MAX. The new wing gave them more range and it could fly higher, faster than the classic 737's. So I've read. The 737 300/400/500 (so I've read and been told) couldn't do the 3-4 hr transcons that the NG's and MAX's do. And they couldn't 410 it like the NG's/MAX's can under the right conditions. @tcco94 calls me a fanboy. But having flown neither upfront, I actually like the 320 series better. I was never really a big 737 fan. Growing up it was always the 727, 757 & 767's that I liked. Later the 787 & 777.

Anyways I appreciate the education and not a rebuke. Telling me to stick to the CFI corner section.

727, especially in 1st Class -- BEST. DOMESTIC. AIRLINER. EVER. (Yeah, I know absolutes are anathema... but still, that's how it felt.)

 

[form810]

I don’t get the 757 love fest. Boeing killed it and that story is done. True, I think it would have been excellent if they had explored a new engine option or a 757X. But that’s old and done and here we are today.

Hell, the AF and the Navy are still flying re-engined 707s! And, by most accounts, they're still terrific birds!!! Better than ever!

 

[form810]

There was no such thing as the “right thing” when it came to the response to the 320NEO

Huh??? What?!?

"No such thing as the 'right thing'"???

That sounds like stuck in a box canyon, death on a stick. (Even then, there's a right [better] thing.)

Shirley, you jets... and don't call me Surely.

 

[form810]

They would have been just fine, just as they were fine after the two fatal 737 rudder hardover accidents. The 737 went on to be a successful program, and so will the MAX.

Well, Boeing wasn't exactly "fine" between its two [published] fatal hard-overs. Or, even for as long as Boeing's smug legal team could stretch it before it was legally compelled to fix its rudeer* slide-valve mess after its first -initially denied- rudder hard-over at KCOS and then after its second at Pittsburgh.

If Boeing had just owned its rudder actuation failure/problem earlier, USAIR 427 would never have had to happen.

Also, if Boeing had just acknowledged and fixed its own damned fail (tail? tail fail?), it could have avoided all the fines and bad PR. I seriously doubt any executives, "spokespeople", or marketing gigilos were EVER taken out to the woodshed. They're all soooo very important -and members of the correct golf clubs- after all.

So much for Boeing....(intimations of Max failure?). So much for industry "self-regulation" (aviation or otherwise).

Hey! That guy didn't give me a "Harumph!"

*snark

 

[ahw01]

There was no such thing as the “right thing” when it came to the response to the 320NEO. The only reasonable response was the 737MAX. Doing a clean sheet design would have meant Airbus gained the sole dominance of narrowbody fleets for this past decade and longer. Again, I don’t blame Boeing for making the MAX. It’s how they went about it, that was the problem.

Airbus dominance is fine. What's the problem.

 

[NovemberEcho]

Honestly. I'd easily say the same for either the A320 series, even the 757.

itndoesnt really matter the type of plane as a pax, just the seat layout. I’ve been in E145’s that were super comfy and roomy and A380’s that my knees were squished into the seat in front of me so much they couldn’t physically recline.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

727, especially in 1st Class -- BEST. DOMESTIC. AIRLINER. EVER. (Yeah, I know absolutes are anathema... but still, that's how it felt.)

Eh, I did like it a lot. But the cabin was noisy as hell. The 767 will always be my favorite plane as a passenger.

itndoesnt really matter the type of plane as a pax, just the seat layout. I’ve been in E145’s that were super comfy and roomy and A380’s that my knees were squished into the seat in front of me so much they couldn’t physically recline.

Oh, it’s more than layout. Type counts, because cabin width is a factor. The A320 is infinitely more comfortable than the 737 because of cabin width alone.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Airbus dominance is fine. What's the problem.

Then it would no longer be a supply and Boeing would be out of the narrowbody market. Would never happen.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Well, Boeing wasn't exactly "fine" between its two [published] fatal hard-overs. Or, even for as long as Boeing's smug legal team could stretch it before it was legally compelled to fix its rudeer* slide-valve mess after its first -initially denied- rudder hard-over at KCOS and then after its second at Pittsburgh.

If Boeing had just owned its rudder actuation failure/problem earlier, USAIR 427 would never have had to happen.

Also, if Boeing had just acknowledged and fixed its own damned fail (tail? tail fail?), it could have avoided all the fines and bad PR. I seriously doubt any executives, "spokespeople", or marketing gigilos were EVER taken out to the woodshed. They're all soooo very important -and members of the correct golf clubs- after all.

So much for Boeing....(intimations of Max failure?). So much for industry "self-regulation" (aviation or otherwise).

Hey! That guy didn't give me a "Harumph!"

*snark

Um, I don’t think anyone knew? The COS crash went unsolved. Even the US Air at PIT was going to be that way. It was finally an Eastwind Airlines 737 on approach to RIC that had a hardcover and then self corrected and landed that they tore up that plane and found the problem. It was after the Eastwind incident that everyone knew what happened and how to fix it.

If you want a true outrage situation, look at MD for their DC10 aft cargo door locking mechanism. Blew apart on an AA DC10 that was able to make an emergency landing at DTW. Lucky because it wasn’t a full flight and the depressurization didn’t collapse the cabin floor and sever control cables. That would happen to Turkish 981, same issue, pretty full flight, this time floor collapsed and cables severed. 300+ dead. MD could have EASILY prevented this one after the AA incident. But no.

 

[ahw01]

Then it would no longer be a supply and Boeing would be out of the narrowbody market. Would never happen.

Yeh but what's the problem

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yeh but what's the problem

Would you say “Shoot yourself in the head, what’s the problem?”

Same thing. It would have been a suicide for Boeing.