Boeing Max Settlement

bike21

9-5 Ruins Lives
No jail time, no surprise that's how corporate criminality works. Pay up and move on I guess.

 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
No jail time, no surprise that's how corporate criminality works. Pay up and move on I guess.

Shocking that the government just extended Be-owing a budget adjustment to cover an unforeseen $3B cost overrun in its Autonomous Systems Programs Division.;)
 
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DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Sadly, Boeing is having to pay for the ineptitude of bottom feeder airline's and the their min standards and min training. I agree the FAA has been reduced to a joke of an agency and the Max thing is a wake up call to make big changes. But making Boeing and the FAA a scapegoat for these two crashes is what I see as criminal. I'll ride on the Max with no problem and no worries...
 

Autothrust Blue

Commander Air Group, BSG-75
Sadly, Boeing is having to pay for the ineptitude of bottom feeder airline's and the their min standards and min training. I agree the FAA has been reduced to a joke of an agency and the Max thing is a wake up call to make big changes. But making Boeing and the FAA a scapegoat for these two crashes is what I see as criminal. I'll ride on the Max with no problem and no worries...
sigh
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
He isn’t wrong. The Lion Air report is a joke, completely ignores Lion Air MX, training, management, and pilots.


(Ex NTSB investigators)
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
No jail time, no surprise that's how corporate criminality works. Pay up and move on I guess.

Jail time for what? Because 31 and 29 yr Captains forgot there are two ways to bring the nose up? Let’s face it, MCAS activation should have been survivable. It was the day before the Lion Air crash, when that crew decided to continue to Jakarta and then did a piss poor job of writing up the problem. At least Lion Air the next day didn’t know about MCAS. Ethiopian has zero excuses. They knew about MCAS. They knew the ways to deal with it. They still failed. Pure incompetent airmanship.

I do think Boeing messed up by rushing the MAX and not thinking through the consequences of a failure of one AOA probe and an infinite MCAS activation. But, pilots still need to pilot.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Sadly, Boeing is having to pay for the ineptitude of bottom feeder airline's and the their min standards and min training. I agree the FAA has been reduced to a joke of an agency and the Max thing is a wake up call to make big changes. But making Boeing and the FAA a scapegoat for these two crashes is what I see as criminal. I'll ride on the Max with no problem and no worries...
I with you on about half of it but from a certification side it's hard to get around the willful breach of safety. If at ANY point they had listened to the engineering complaints, the multiple "stop" actions created to get the Max back on track, and had the company not retaliated against the engineers trying to change exactly what brought these two airplanes down from two garbage airlines, we'd be in a different place.

Theres a LOT wrong here, and just because Lion and Ethiopian are joke airlines who helped kill evertyone onboard doesn't mean Boeing is in the clear. Read those charges, they are accurate. Boeing done wrong.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Do agree partly. Boeing was regulated by the FAA. Corporations are going to do what corporations do. Increase stockholder value. You can talk safety all you want but Boeing is going to try to stretch things if they think it's more efficient and saves money. The FAA needs to regulate. Draw the line in the sand and say no. They didn't do that. They used to years ago. If anything good came out this is that it was a wake up call for the FAA to makes some changes.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Do agree partly. Boeing was regulated by the FAA. Corporations are going to do what corporations do. Increase stockholder value. You can talk safety all you want but Boeing is going to try to stretch things if they think it's more efficient and saves money. The FAA needs to regulate. Draw the line in the sand and say no. They didn't do that. They used to years ago. If anything good came out this is that it was a wake up call for the FAA to makes some changes.
Theres a wide wide range of problems with the whole max issue. Boeings hand in this is pretty clear and Boeing knows that. They conspired to hide things. The FAA is a dumbass group yes, but you have to appreciate even if the FAA had made better choices Boeing bullied engineers that had valid safety concerns. Boeing hid things from the FAA, from customers, and also the pilots.

What Boeing did was criminal. Should the FAA sue itself? Sure. But we're already paying the military wing of boeing extra to pay for the fines on the civilian wing of boeing.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Theres a wide wide range of problems with the whole max issue. Boeings hand in this is pretty clear and Boeing knows that. They conspired to hide things. The FAA is a dumbass group yes, but you have to appreciate even if the FAA had made better choices Boeing bullied engineers that had valid safety concerns. Boeing hid things from the FAA, from customers, and also the pilots.

What Boeing did was criminal. Should the FAA sue itself? Sure. But we're already paying the military wing of boeing extra to pay for the fines on the civilian wing of boeing.
Yeah. I can't believe how expensive those smart bombs are they just sold to Saudi Arabia
 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Didn't VW get fined more for the emissions scandal?

How do I become a corporation so I get away with • like that?
You have to incorporate your personhood... which you can TOTALLY do these days. In fact, for pilots, who are known to be inveterate X, becoming incorporate X is usually a very good start toward personhood. :)
 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Essentially just letting corporations know that killing people will cost you about 7.2 million per life currently.

No jail time, of course. Just pay up and go back on about your business.
This is SOP. After events like this, most people are filled with horror and incredulity and beseechingly ask, "How can you place a number on a human life?" Well, it actually happens ALL the time.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Yeah. I can't believe how expensive those smart bombs are they just sold to Saudi Arabia
Well, theyre smart bombs not cheap bombs right?

Boeing makes good stuff. There's a lot of good people there, even in the sales dept too I suppose. They •ed this one up pretty bad is all, we gotta be responsible to each other when there's lives. Real world? Doesnt happen and these wackjobs push aside safety for bonus.

Maybe this isnt the right way, but if it gets some bad people fired because thats what the investors understand then maybe some good comes out of it. Maybe I aint explaining it great, but believe me, theres some sinister stuff that happened here.
 

Space Monkey

Well-Known Member
Theres a wide wide range of problems with the whole max issue. Boeings hand in this is pretty clear and Boeing knows that. They conspired to hide things. The FAA is a dumbass group yes, but you have to appreciate even if the FAA had made better choices Boeing bullied engineers that had valid safety concerns. Boeing hid things from the FAA, from customers, and also the pilots.

What Boeing did was criminal. Should the FAA sue itself? Sure. But we're already paying the military wing of boeing extra to pay for the fines on the civilian wing of boeing.
The irony is that the thing Boeing was hiding was placed there -hidden- to prevent Boeing from incurring liability should the lame-ass pilots of Chitty-Airlines, Inc. end up not knowing how to to identify and/or recover from a stall. In other words, MCAS was supposed to be an antidote to a lack of proper pilot training. Instead, Boeing's chitty-ass system ended up killing those lame-ass pilots. The really Darwinianally unfair thing is, the combo of chitty system and chitty pilots ended up killing hundreds of innocent Pax.

Boeing knew full well how bad these pilots were, but still, Boeing really, really wanted to sell airplanes to their companies.

The fact that MCAS was a half-ass, half-baked system?? Yeah, that clearly was Be-owing's fault.
 
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