ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
Titles?
Boeing Lounge Boeing 737 LRD
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
And what part of the FH are you relying on helping MX over a function you have received no formal training on?
Write up your MX issue in the logbook, throw the yellow tag on the throttles, and then get OUT OF THE WAY. It’s MX job, it is LITERALLY labeled MAINT.
Attack? No, trying to advise you of what should be common sense.
I’m also gonna take a guess that you are one of those guys who has “figured out the trick” to beat the MAX motoring time and start the engines up right away. (Also a huge NO).
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Yes?
I’m not sure where this notion that pulling a fire handle is irreversible came from but it’s not true. Same thing with blowing a fire bottle. It’s not permanent.
Sculprit
Well-Known Member
To be fair if Boeing just put the temp on the display for each of the 3 controllers it would be a lot more simplified to get temps correct for the cabin. The main reason I think most folks went into the maint menu, it shows the exact temp each dial was at.
My shop ended up sending a Pilot Bulletin out telling us to knock it off.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
And if it didn’t go into thermonuclear meltdown any time the cabin temp is below like 65° on the first flight of the day
Soku39
Well-Known Member
Mate, do you think that in an already smoky cockpit that there would not be a significant startle factor as all the engine noise suddenly goes away because you pulled the wrong handle. Then you finally figure out what went wrong, realize you have to push the handle back in after you already pissed away however many thousands of feet (or since these happen on takeoff at 500-1000 feet, you'd already be in the ground), then have to go and relight the good motor. I don't know how many times you've done this in the sim, for me it would be exactly zero.
How do you get that stuff back in there???
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Well if one engine is dead, and you pull the others fire handle and blow the bottle…At 800 feet, I’d suspect that’s not good, but I don’t fly this giant POS so I don’t know
ShortField
No one of consequence
This is the way. At the risk of agreeing with CC, stay in your lane. “Helping the operation” is great if it works out. When it doesn’t and you get caught doing something (incorrectly) that belongs to another group of highly trained professionals, or making up your own workarounds, you better look the • out.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
"See that knob?"
Yes
"Yeah press the button and twist the knob"
Oh yeah thanks. I would have figured that out eventually. Haha.
"You guys want coffee? I'm grabbing the crew some coffee. Fingers crossed we get out of here."
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
See the Flight Handbook?
See how the Flight Handbook says that selector switch should only be on “C” ???
See how troubleshooting is prohibited in the FOM and FH, and one example highlighted above about trouble shooting is, and I quote, “using switches or controls INTENDED ONLY FOR MAINTENANCE.”
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Of course. It’s actually pretty clearly written in our books. Beefy is just an ignorant person. Or even worse, maybe willfully ignorant. I’d like to give the benefit of the doubt.
Beefy if your answer is anything other than “my bad” then you need to have a serious self-introspection. And maybe re-read the ALPA Code of Ethics.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Is it irreversible?
Again, wasn’t trying to create a procedure, but rather a discussion.
Additional information I’ve have since found out from our technical team. On the MAX, the bleed valve is electronically activated and is also tied to the Engine Start Lever. i.e. taking the Engine Start Lever to Cutoff closes the associated bleed valve.
Another good reason to simply follow Boeing’s guidance and accomplish an Engine Fire, Failure, or Severe Damage checklist.
I think this probably is good guidance, provided that every time this happens, it manifests itself as basically an engine seizure eventually. Which i believe has been the case in the events that have been documented (don’t quote me). My bigger concern would be developing a culture that is pre-disposed to treat every cabin/flight deck smoke event as if it were also the LRD issue/engine FOD/failure we are talking about here. Might not be the end of the world to accidentally shut down a motor when you didn’t need to, but it’s also not a particularly good practice, and I fear there might be unintended consequences with that. Full disclosure, I’ve been off the line since this came out, and I haven’t read the full procedure, so perhaps this is all accounted for in the way that it is written. If that’s the case, unregard my thoughts
It is ridiculous, that in 2025, the "scoreboard" plus the position of the lights within and the overhead seams in the panel determine where you look to see the off/overhead/fail indications is absolutely ridiculous. What a human factors nightmare.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
The Max-10 was not going to have waivers for the crew alerting requirements (which basically made it a dead duck) until someone slipped the exemption into a consolidated appropriations bill as a gift to Boeing, whereupon the sum total of my undergraduate education and graduate education let out an anguished yelp.
They could not certify that aircraft as a new product today based solely on its deficient crew alerting alone.