Toobdrvr
Estrellas Asesino
I thought it was "so to speak" with you guys...
Hopefully, someday we'll know what happened and find ways to keep. It from happening again.
Congrats on the other thing btw.
Blue Angels crash in Nashville
- Thread starter Soku39
- Start date
I thought it was "so to speak" with you guys...
Hopefully, someday we'll know what happened and find ways to keep. It from happening again.
Congrats on the other thing btw.
Toobdrvr
Estrellas Asesino
Yeah, and maybe controlability (sp?), acknowledging that it's pretty much centerline thrust, but a LOT of it...
Like I said, I don't know nothin' bout no zoomers...
Hard to say. Possible, but like you said, the Hornet is about as centerline thrust as a plane can get without being a Skymaster, so while I wouldn't think controllability would be an issue offhand, that's still something that would be looked into.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Not speculating that this is the cause at all, but on the generic subject of Hornet engine failures, it's a little of both. Definitely "centerline thrust", though it still takes a lot of rudder to fly a single engine approach. There is a caution in the pilot checklist/EP section that says that full AB on the only good motor during a go-around may cause some loss of control, or words to that effect. We are talking about pretty low fuel state (light) and most likely -402 "big" motors. This effect is more pronounced in the Super Hornet, which has a bunch more thrust in AB. I've done it in both aircraft, and have never noticed anything close to loss of control, but you really have to stomp on the rudder to center the ball, and it behooves a guy to not get slow in the process…….kinda basic pilot stuff, but there are a lot of folks out there flying it without any real prop and/or multi time, to whom the term "rudder" might equate to "those things on the floor that I have never touched". Again, not speculation on this specific mishap, just a little amplifying info on F/A-18 flying qualities in general.
The Fez
Analog Millennial
rockman2343@aol.com
Well-Known Member
JAG report is out. Pretty sad read with the failed ejection and all.
https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/document-report-june-fatal-blue-angels-crash
https://news.usni.org/2016/09/16/document-report-june-fatal-blue-angels-crash
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Wow. When they say he unsuccessfully tried to eject. Does that mean the seat didn't fire?
The impacted before the seat could fire?
Or he had such a negative flight path vector the seat wasn't able to overcome that?
The PDF of the full report would t load for me. I apologize if that was explained in the full report and I missed it.
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The impacted before the seat could fire?
Or he had such a negative flight path vector the seat wasn't able to overcome that?
The PDF of the full report would t load for me. I apologize if that was explained in the full report and I missed it.
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Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
157. After the pilot pulls the ejection seat handle in a SJU-5/A
ejection seat, there is a .3 second delay initiator that allows the
canopy to be jettisoned before the catapult fires. [encl (23)]
158. Within .2 seconds of the catapult firing, which is .5 seconds
total time after the pilot initiates ejection, the seat clears the
aircraft. [encl (23)]
159. At .8 seconds total elapsed time from pilot ejection initiation,
the drogue shoot, designed to stabilize and decelerate the seat,
fires. [encl (23)]
160. At 1.8 seconds total elapsed time, seat/man separation begins and
at 2.0 seconds total elapsed time, the ejection sequence is complete.
[encl (23)]
161. The Mishap Investigation Support Team (MIST) in-field findings
indicate that after Blue Angel 6 initiated ejection, catapult
operation was normal. [encl (92)]
162. During the post catapult phase, the seat/man separation and
recovery phases were interrupted, which prevented successful
completion of the ejection sequence. [encl (92)]
163. The MIST in-field findings also indicate that the drogue
parachute system deployed, along with the main parachute system, while
traveling through fire. [encl (92)]
164. A fire ball began when the aircraft impacted the terrain. [encls
(42), (44), (46) and (90) through (92)]
165. Both the drogue shoot and the main parachute were quickly
destroyed in the fire and provided little to no deceleration for the
pilot. [encl (92)
and
26. Capt Kuss unsuccessfully attempted to eject from the aircraft at
the very last moment. The ejection seat propelled him out of the
aircraft, but the ejection sequence was interrupted, most likely by
trees or aircraft debris caused by the aircraft’s contact with trees.
The aircraft’s impact with trees and terrain sparked an explosion that
instantaneously burned the drogue shoot and parachute and prevented
Capt Kuss’ deceleration. Capt Kuss died of blunt force trauma
injuries. [FF (140), (142) through (148), and (158) through (165)
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Jesus, I had never really considered that, but what a horrible way to die. Sorry to hear it.
As for the ejection, I will not comment on this mishap, but ejection seats in general are not magic (even "0/0" seats have an envelope), and they can't overcome physics. If the seat doesn't have enough "poop" to arrest whatever sink rate or VSI you have, then you are hitting the ground too. Every seat has a limit in this respect.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
That's a hell of a way to go.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
I knew an AF F-16 instructor pilot that was killed when his seat didn't complete the separation sequence after a midair collision. Both pilots ejected but his chute wasn't able to slow him enough due to the extra weight. What a suck way to go..................
He was a great person. He gave me the opportunity to fly an F16 simulator..........wish I could state that I was awesome but that would be a total lie!!
What I can state about the experience is that "rate of closure" is VERY important!!!
He was a great person. He gave me the opportunity to fly an F16 simulator..........wish I could state that I was awesome but that would be a total lie!!
What I can state about the experience is that "rate of closure" is VERY important!!!
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Thanks for posting it for me. Damn what s bad way to go.
Hope his family doesn't read it.
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Hope his family doesn't read it.
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One of about nearly 40 people I've personally known who have perished in aircraft accidents. Ive lost exact count, unless I sit down and actually think about it.
Don't know if that was worse, or the other guy I knew who (for unknown reasons) aborted takeoff at Misawa in his F-16, ejected as the jet was leaving the end of the runway. Jet goes through the LOC antenna and explodes into a ball of JP-8 fire, and Ronin's parachute carries him right down into the middle of the wreckage. A JASDF 2-man truck crew and a USAF enlisted man who happened to be nearby at the end of the runway ran straight into the fire to pull him out of the middle of the burning wreckage, where he was still face down in the fuel and conscious. He lived for almost 2 months at the burn center in San Antonio before passing away.
Unforunate series of events, and to this day it's not known why he initiated abort. No post-accident indications of any kind of aircraft problem, engine problem, or systems problem. Some intersting things that were factors; the departure end of the runway had a BAK-12 arresting cable at 2500' remaining, and a BAK-14/12 at 1250' remaining. The cable at the 1250' remaining point was out of service, due to the BAK-14 portion having been dismantled due to a scheduled conversion to a BAK-12-only configuration. The BAK-12 cable was there at the 1250' point, but was unusuable because the BAK-14 was down. However, there was a SAFE-BAR arresting net located at the departure end of the runway, similar to a BAK-15 system (looks like an aircraft carrier net that catches the whole aircraft), but sits in the down position, and is activated "up" by the tower personnel when an abort is in progress and announced by the pilot. Ronin announced his abort, went idle/speedbrakes, dropped his hook but was already past the 2500' BAK-12. Tower didn't have time to activate the SAFE-BAR and the jet rolled over the top of it and into the overrun at not too fast a speed, where he ejected, then into the LOC antenna where it broke apart and caught fire. His ejection seat carried him up to about 300 AGL for chute deployment, and the JASDF personnel reported that he was trying to steer himself away from the fireball.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Were you in the sim, learning how to fly an F-16. To go on a secret mission to rescue your father?
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Damn, now I have to kill you....................
Hey, if Randy Quaid can go from a crop duster to an F-18 why is it so hard to believe that I was able to go from a UH-1 to an F-16?
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Split S and reverse half cubans are both very tricky. They require you to pull from the apex of the loop towards the ground. Have to be on your gates of altitude and speed, if not you'll hit the dirt. Too low and you won't have the radius or not enough energy which leads to accelerate stall on the backside of the looping portion.
They are not popular in airshow routines anymore, and snap rolls on a down line are starting to lose popularity for the same reasons.
They are not popular in airshow routines anymore, and snap rolls on a down line are starting to lose popularity for the same reasons.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
@MikeD sadly I too have lost friends to accidents in the commercial side and been witness to both GA and Airshow accidents. If I had to pick I'd say most of us would want it to be quick. I wouldn't wish severe burns on anyone...
The First F-14 crew that had to eject for loss of hydraulics almost descended into a fireball but were fortunately a wind gust pushed them past it.
Too bad the military can't upgrade the chute to the rectangular steerable chutes.
The First F-14 crew that had to eject for loss of hydraulics almost descended into a fireball but were fortunately a wind gust pushed them past it.
Too bad the military can't upgrade the chute to the rectangular steerable chutes.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Those steerable chutes probably don't get the same 0/0 rating and would require more altitude.
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Lawman
Well-Known Member
Along with that due to the environment of ejections (i.e. Not jumping out of a plane level at a set speed) they don't necessarily have a conscious pilot through some or all of the ejection time frame.
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