God you're dense. That isn't what ATN was talking about. If you want to have a completely different conversation then do so with the guy who was bringing up the subject. I was trying to clarify an obvious misunderstanding you had, lesson learned.You don't need to intuitively see the yoke to know what the guy is doing. Paying attention to the instruments (especially attitude / heading ) would have saved them, when they already knew "we don't have any good airspeeds here."
You can't say Birgenair was a CRM issue and this AF was not? The AF accident was a serious failure in CRM.