Bird-Flipping AA Pilot Fined $13K

[tonyw]

Their country, their laws, their decision. If you don't like it, then don't bid that route the next time. Or keep that middle finger down.

It's their country and they can levy any fine they want to.

After all, if one of theirs did to our beloved TSA, maybe that guy would have ended up in Gitmo.

 

[JDMcFly]

[ QUOTE ]
Their country, their laws, their decision. If you don't like it, then don't bid that route the next time. Or keep that middle finger down.

It's their country and they can levy any fine they want to.

After all, if one of theirs did to our beloved TSA, maybe that guy would have ended up in Gitmo.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't mean one cannot voice their opinion to oppose a stupid law.

 

[mrivc211]

Tenney-

I also gotta back Tony on this one. Their country their rules! No one forced him to go to Brazil. I understand your probably sympathetic to the pilot, but we too have stupid laws. If you contest them, your either thrown in jail, or also heavily fined! The pilot should have thought twice before doing something like that in a country which doesn't have the same laws we do. I'm sure anybody thats used to traveling would know that. Not trying to bash you or anything, just trying to defend the big Tone Dogg!

 

[kellwolf]

Anyone remember the kid that got caned in Singapore a LOOOOONG time ago? I think I was either still in high school or middle school, but there was a big thing about that since he was an American.

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Tony and I know each other well enough to talk. He's strong enough to answer me himself thank you!

I still think it's asinine that one little finger results in $31k. If AA had supported him I'm sure the outcome would have been different.

 

[PhotoPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Their country, their laws, their decision. If you don't like it, then don't bid that route the next time. Or keep that middle finger down.

It's their country and they can levy any fine they want to.

After all, if one of theirs did to our beloved TSA, maybe that guy would have ended up in Gitmo.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't mean one cannot voice their opinion to oppose a stupid law.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for freedom of speech and voicing opinions, but let's do it in a respectful manner. Flipping the bird to another country's government isn't just an objection to a policy - it's a rude, offensive, and adolescent action that reflects poorly on Americans. That kind of 'opinionated expression' doesn't help accomplish anything positive.

 

[172_Captain]

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As for Brazil, they are just being vindictive and they have absolutely no right to direct this at Americans.

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Well, seeing how we are doing exactly the same thing to them....

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But..but..Tony! We have good reason to impose these types of security measures, Brazil don't. Well at least not in the fashion in which this AA pilot was treated.

 

[PhotoPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
But..but..Tony! We have good reason to impose these types of security measures, Brazil don't. Well at least not in the fashion in which this AA pilot was treated.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not suggesting that only the US has a reason to protect it's borders and track it's international visitors are you? There are many, many other countries that deal with terrorism on a daily basis and have done so for years. If you check the history of Brazil, you'll find that they've been dealing with it for a long time - longer than us by far! Furthermore, terrorists can be recruited from any country. We've seen Americans acting as terrorists before, so why shouldn't Brazil check us out when we cross their borders?

I'd say that Brazil has excellent reason to impose security measures. Even our esteemed leader, President Bush, has said over and over that terrorism is a global problem demanding a global response. We should be thanking Brazil for pulling a chair up to the table. As for the fashion in which the pilot was treated, he made a mockery of something that has been deemed very serious by governments all over the world. Darn right he should be held accountable and shown that the next time he walks through a security checkpoint he'd better think twice before acting like a fool.

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Of course Brazil has to protect their borders from terrorists! Agree 100% there. Just don't think an American Airlines pilot who holds up number with his middle finger is such a huge threat, do you?

Let me ask you this all you naysayers, if a Brazillian had done this at a US airport, do you think he would have been fined? I DOUBT IT!

 

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
if a Brazillian had done this at a US airport, do you think he would have been fined? I DOUBT IT!

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Nah, just imprisoned w/o trial. Possibly deported with a note saying he's never allowed back into the US.

 

[PhotoPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course Brazil has to protect their borders from terrorists! Agree 100% there. Just don't think an American Airlines pilot who holds up number with his middle finger is such a huge threat, do you?

Let me ask you this all you naysayers, if a Brazillian had done this at a US airport, do you think he would have been fined? I DOUBT IT!

[/ QUOTE ]

As for the first part, I repeat: As for the fashion in which the pilot was treated, he made a mockery of something that has been deemed very serious by governments all over the world. Darn right he should be held accountable and shown that the next time he walks through a security checkpoint he'd better think twice before acting like a fool.

As for the second part, I think the TSA would react quite strongly toward someone who demonstrated that much contempt for the security process. YOU try walking into a checkpoint at your local international airport and flipping a screener the bird. I might even fly out there and bail you out of jail . . .

Someone with that little respect for the protection of citizens' safety is, indeed, a threat whether direct or indirect. If you feel like you have the right to say "F#*k you!" to the security process, you might well be of the mentality and inclination to bring something more potent than your finger next time. And don't say, "Yeah, but he's an airline pilot!" If anything, that means he should be held to a higher standard!

(I do wonder if he was just holding his number in an unfortunate way. However, he hasn't issued a statement to that effect, so I have to think they got him in his original intent . . . )

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Don't give me that "held to a higher standard" nonsense!

The fact is he ISN'T a terrorist threat. Holding up a finger is a sign of frustration, which is perfectly understandable as a pilot, or any international traveler for that matter. No, this was a question of EGOS - HUGE LATIN EGOS of the custom agents in Brazil. I saw it all over the caribbean, in Mexico, and several latin american countries. They want to be bribed and bowed to. If you have been there you know exactly what I am talking about.

This is not an racial slur, but a statement of facts in these countries. The race or ethnicity of the people involved is not a factor, but the CULTURE is everything.

 

[PEACE OUT]

He was finned in US$ 13.000,00, what is about brazilian reais 30.000,00.

He wasn´t just holding the paper with the middle finger, but he was YES making jokes with the brazilian customs officials. Prove of this is that he was supported in doing such a thing by the other crewmembers who were not allowed to enter in the country. In my FBO i know like 100 guys who would give their lives (including myself) to be where he was without doing stupid things and deserving his job.

About freedom of speech: What would someone think of some muslim-faced man walking in N.Y. streets wearing a t-shirt written:
I love bin Laden. Isn´t it freedom of speech?
When the white people killed Luther King, wasn´t he speeking freely?

Following laws of foreign countries is just a rule of good policy.

I heard AA paid it, but i don´t know what happened to the captain. Captain, AA Captain, of course he should be helding a MUCH higher standart.

I don´t believe it was intention of the brazilian officials to direct this policy to Americans, but YES, they have this right. It is called international Reciprocal principle, which apply for the United Nations countries. I believe their law is against the law applied in the U.S., not against american citizens, even because brazil and other "terrorist countries" are US economic partners in many ways. The law is the same to people who come to U.S. from "terrorist countries" (latin american and south african countries terrorists: LOL). If someone believes it´s a stupid law, so it shouldn´t be applied to people who are coming to US.

Brazilian identification system was pretty "stone-aged"and believe, you has to take all the 10 fingerprints using some kind of ink. I dont know exactly. I read they´re now using a modern stuff, that was supposed to be used in Brazil - Bolivea border in order to stop the drug (cocaine) dealing.
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[PhotoPilot]

By held to a higher standard, I mean that he's a pilot who travels for a living. He should be much more respectful of security, foreign custom, and the foreign 'point-of-view' than the average traveller. I'm assuming that this guy has been in the latin countries and therefore should know about the 'egos,' as you put it. All the more reason to show some respect. I also stand by the statement that there's no way for the Brazillian customs agents to know that he's not a threat. There have been recent statements about terrorist networks with operatives working as pilots for major airlines: I'd say he did a bangup job of putting an appropriate spotlight on himself.

Finally, 'holding up a finger' is NOT a sign of frustration. It's a sign of disrespect, aggression, and anger. The international interpretation of the finger isn't "Golly, I'm respectfully frustrated." When I was travelling for my photography business and always had to open my bags, uncap every lens, fire off a shot or two on each camera body, have every roll of film hand searched, explain what every piece of equipment was for, and then pack it all back up with TSA fingerprints on every square millimeter of glass, I got frustrated. But I never shot the bird at anyone. That would only have made things worse!

 

[donttouchanything]

[ QUOTE ]

When the white people killed Luther King,

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This statement is way over top!

 

[derg]

He was referring to an example of someone using freedom of speech on a t-shirt.

 

[tonyw]

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Tony and I know each other well enough to talk. He's strong enough to answer me himself thank you!

I still think it's asinine that one little finger results in $31k. If AA had supported him I'm sure the outcome would have been different.

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I'm not saying that I approve of the fine. Do I think that it's excessive and that they did it to teach Americans not to screw with them? Of course I do.

Nevertheless, the bottom line is that it is their absolute right to levy that fine. It is their country and they can do what they want.

Keep in mind that the whole reason that they imposed the fingerprinting and photographing is because we did it to them first. Honestly, I think it's time we got a taste of our own medicine. If we get irritated by having to get fingerprinted and photographed, let's think about how the folks who are coming to our country to spend money feel.

And let's also keep in mind that this whole thing does nothing to protect us from a determined, motivated terrorist. As I've said before, Richard Reid is a British citizen, and he wouldn't have been subjected to this. Nor would say, an al Qaeda recruit from Germany, where Mohammad Atta lived for a while.

 

[derg]

Or get a guy like Jose Padilla and have him get involved with the 'guest worker' program DC is proposing.

Man, the possibilities are scary.

 

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
And let's also keep in mind that this whole thing does nothing to protect us from a determined, motivated terrorist.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a point there Tony. I've often said the same thing about TSA and airport security.

My original point is getting lost, however. I think this guy was chosen to be an example. I don't think his crime fits the punishment. In this case, it is a political statement to the US.

We have some AA people on this board. Did the airline help out the pilot or vice versa?

 

[PhotoPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
My original point is getting lost, however. I think this guy was chosen to be an example. I don't think his crime fits the punishment. In this case, it is a political statement to the US.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ackk! You're right. Your original point was a bit overlooked. I'm still standing by my feelings about the bird being an inappropriate response and the fine being perfectly within Brazil's right as a country, but I agree that it is a strong political statement that may be a bit on the heavy side.