Big Trouble at IBT 747

[WacoFan]

What would cause a National to take over a local? Could they do it based upon incompetence alone, or does there have to involve some kind of fraud, theft, etc?

 

[casey]

from another forum

https://www.local747.org/
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


“Notice of Trusteeship”


TO: Officers and Members of Local Union 747

FROM: James P. Hoffa, General President

I have recently been informed that the International Union is in danger of losing certification for several bargaining units that have been assigned for representation purposes to Local 747 as a result of the Local's failure to perform its duties as the bargaining representative of their members. As set forth below, a decertification petition has recently resulted in the loss of representation rights at one carrier and another petition is being processed. Other petitions are threatened to be filed by members who want to receive the representation they expected when they joined the Teamsters. It does not appear that the officials of Local 747 are reacting to these decertification efforts in a manner that is likely to convince these members that future services will be improved and they should remain Teamsters.

During the course of investigating these complaints about the Local's representation, I have also been informed that certain officers of Local 747 may have engaged in financial improprieties relating to their compensation and to the payment of legal fees. The representation problems appear to be compounded by complaints that efforts are being made by Local 747 to collect dues from workers who have chosen the Teamsters as their bargaining representative prior to the negotiation of a collective agreement, in violation of pledges made to those members and contrary to general practices within the Union.

The credible information and reports reflect the following:

1. Local 747 and its President Principal Executive Officer, Ernest "Gene" Sowell, are parties to an employment contract that they have intentionally concealed from Local 747's membership through the inclusion of a confidentiality provision. The employment contract provides that Local 747 shall employ and pay Sowell for services performed as the Local's General Counsel and Executive Administrator. The contract specifies that Sowell is "responsible for handling all legal matters of the ... " Local Union. Local 747 has paid Sowell more than $1.2 million since 2005 (not including health and pension coverage) for his work as General Counsel, while incurring steadily increasing amounts of outside legal fees for services that contractually are required to be handled by Sowell. Additionally, in both 2007 and 2008, Local 747 incorrectly and misleadingly reported on its LM-2 reports that its principal outside counsel, Patrick Flynn, was paid for his services as an arbitrator, not as the Local's counsel.

The remaining members of the Local Union Executive Board have either not performed their duty to oversee the employment contract or have failed to challenge Sowell's apparent abrogation of his responsibilities under the employment contract.

2. Local 747 is in immediate danger of losing bargaining units to ongoing decertification efforts generated by its failure to represent its members. Unless action is taken to convince members that the Teamsters Union is capable of performing as their bargaining agent, the Local Union, Airline Division and International Union will be injured. And it is apparent that the current leadership of Local 747 has not been responsive to the complaints of these disaffected members and has no prospect of redressing the problems at this time.

1. A. Great Lakes: Local 747 was assigned representational responsibility for the Great Lakes pilot group but has provided little, if any, representation. On April 9, 2009, the decertification election was completed and the members rejected continued representation by Local 747 by a vote of 209-0. Local 747 did not attempt to oppose the effort or correct the underlying issues that gave rise to it. Nor did it assist the Airline Division's efforts to convince the pilots to remain Teamsters.
2.
3. B. Cape Air: The Cape Air pilot group voted for Teamster Representation approximately three years ago and still does not have a first contract. An independent organization has now filed an application with the National Mediation Board to replace the Teamsters as the pilot group's bargaining representative. The Cape Air pilot group is scheduled to commence voting under the supervision of the National Mediation Board this month. Their votes will determine whether the Teamsters are ousted as the unit's bargaining representative and, whether the unit has any bargaining representative at all.
4.
5. C. North American Airlines: The pilots working at North American Airlines are also expressing their desire to oust the Teamsters as their bargaining representative. The pilot group's executive council leadership has advised that if Local 747 remains as their assigned bargaining representative, the unit would in all likelihood file to decertify the Teamsters. Indeed, credible reports indicate that another union is now actively soliciting authorization cards to displace the Teamsters at this airline.
6.
7. In addition to other grievances regarding representation, the pilots are upset with Local 747's attempts to collect dues from them retroactive to the date the Teamsters were certified as their bargaining representative. Consistent with then-existing Airline Division policy, the pilots were assured that they would not have to pay dues until they secured a first contract. Near the end of the contract negotiations, Local 747, however, pressured many of the pilots to pay retroactive dues, advising them that this was the only way in which they could participate in the contract ratification vote. Local 747 pressured several of the pilots to sign promissory notes agreeing to pay retroactive dues, and continues to collect dues in accordance with the terms of such unauthorized promissory notes.
8.
9. D. Gulfstream International Airlines: The on-the-property leadership of the Gulfstream International Airlines pilot group recently wrote a letter advising the International Union that “there is a lack of faith that our local will do anything to improve our situation, or protect our members from a vengeful management should they bring any grievances.” They also complained about Local 747's lack of bargaining preparation and training for the unit's rank-and-file bargaining committee.
10.
11. The International Union has been advised that some of the pilots have contacted another labor organization seeking help to decertify the Teamsters and Local 747 and to assume the representation of the carrier. Although the pilot group's leadership sought assistance from Local 747 to avoid a fullscale decertification effort, neither the Local 747 Business Agent nor anyone else followed through to provide any such help.
12.
13. E. Omni Air International: It appears that Local 747 has not taken any steps to establish any on-the-property leadership and work-standards related committees in the more than one year period since they voted to join the Teamsters, in violation of the Local 747 Bylaws. Several of the pilots who had voluntarily agreed to pay dues to the Local even before securing their first contract are now resigning their membership and refusing to pay membership dues in protest of Local 747's inadequate representation.
14.
15. F. Republic Air and Affiliates: It appears that the pilot group is dissatisfied with Local 747 because of its leadership's failure to provide any representation with respect to grievances. There is a backlog of grievances that fill up several pages of the Local 747 on-line magazine.
16.
17. G. Kalitta: The Kalitta Air pilot group has expressed deep frustration with Local 747 for many months based on Local 747's perceived failure to provide representation to the unit through the timely processing of grievances and on account of the Local's failure to communicate with the unit. Their on-the property leadership advised the Airline Division that unless the International assigned them to another Teamster local, they would decertify the Teamsters. Efforts by Airline Director Bourne to redress the problems have been thwarted by Local 747 President Sowell's insistence that the Local be compensated for lost revenue in the event the members are transferred to another Teamster Local.

For the reasons set forth above, and pursuant to my authority under Article VI, Section 5(a) of the International Constitution, I am imposing an emergency trusteeship over the affairs of Local 747, effective immediately. The emergency trusteeship is being imposed: (1) to correct financial corruption or malpractice; (2) to assure the performance of Local 747's duties as a bargaining representative; and (3) because the affairs of Local 747 are being conducted in such a manner inconsistent with established policies and practices, which jeopardize the interests of the International Union and Local 747 and violate the rights of Teamster represented workers.

I have appointed Brother David Ross as Temporary Trustee and Brother Dan Brannan as Assistant Trustee. Pursuant to the procedures set forth in Article VI, Section 5 of the International Constitution, you will soon be receiving a notice of hearing to determine whether the temporary trusteeship should be continued or dissolved. Separate notice of that hearing shall be posted by the Temporary Trustee.

A copy of this Notice shall be posted immediately in the Local Union Headquarters and in such other places as will ensure the members of Local 747 are informed of the Trusteeship.

April 15, 2009 Notice from General President Hoffa

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

1. Local 747 and its President Principal Executive Officer, Ernest "Gene" Sowell, are parties to an employment contract that they have intentionally concealed from Local 747's membership through the inclusion of a confidentiality provision. The employment contract provides that Local 747 shall employ and pay Sowell for services performed as the Local's General Counsel and Executive Administrator. The contract specifies that Sowell is "responsible for handling all legal matters of the ... " Local Union. Local 747 has paid Sowell more than $1.2 million since 2005 (not including health and pension coverage) for his work as General Counsel, while incurring steadily increasing amounts of outside legal fees for services that contractually are required to be handled by Sowell. Additionally, in both 2007 and 2008, Local 747 incorrectly and misleadingly reported on its LM-2 reports that its principal outside counsel, Patrick Flynn, was paid for his services as an arbitrator, not as the Local's counsel.

Ouch.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The IBT Airline Division is a complete and utter mess. Gene Sowell was holding three positions and getting paid for each of them while doing very little actual work. I'm told that he is the third-highest paid Teamsters employee in the entire organization. Something to the tune of $375k prior to expenses, all for doing just about nothing for a corrupt local like 747.

Time for ALPA, guys.

 

[RAHegional]

"The Local 747 As Been Taken Over By The International. The Executive Board, Inlcuding The President, Has Been Removed. All Of Our Communications With The Pilots Have Been Suspended Until Further Notice. All Negotiations Have Been Suspended By The International. Your Representation Is In Immediate Peril, Courtesy Of Airline Division Director David Bourne.

Your Executive Council Is Still Intact But Without The Tools To Adequately Represent You. Rest Assured That You, The Pilot Are The Only Concern Of Your Executive Council. We Are Working To Resolve The Sitution Using All Legal Avenues. We Will Update You Here As The Situation Progesses."

Fraternally,

Peter Pranger Exco Chairman
And Your Executive Council



I've been sitting back watching this for awhile. Hey Peter! Time to crawl out of Gene's pocket. We're all way over him and 'ol Tiffy. The charges against Gene are pretty clear and it's the same thing that everyone else in 747 has been talking about. Gene's gonna represent us? When?

A lot of folks have been waiting for this day. We knew it would never happen with Treichler at the wheel. The guys at Kalitta are leaving for 1224. Lucky them.

I called the 747 office on Friday...they had 4 senior, experienced airline pilots there serving us! The Assistant Trustee who has extensive experience as a union leader, ALPA MEC Chairman and Vice President. The guy I spoke with was the former ALPA Vice Chairman of the National Bargaining Committee and QUIT ALPA to join the Teamsters Airline Division as a representative for the International for crewmembers. Wow. The TRUSTEE is the former Local 1224 President...now THERE'S a lousy contract!!! (Did Gene negotiate this one? He always refers to it like he did!)

What do you have against Bourne taking out corrupt leadership? Are you scared of something?

I looked up Bourne and asked this guy how well he knew him. He said he watched Bourne represent his guys at ALPA. The guy was elected to THREE CONSECUTIVE terms by his pilots. (He even ran a clean race!) He elevated the opinion of the members of his group in all of the other carriers eyes so much that he became a National Committee Vice Chairmen.

hmmm...wonder if he'd be interested in leading a regional airline group whose leaders hands are in Sowell's pockets.:yup:

Sounds like Bourne has pretty strong bona fides to me. A lot better than Sowell. And light years better than Treichler. I'm glad Hoffa has a LEADER for the Airline Division for once.

I'm betting Gene's gonna fold like a cheap suit and beg for a buyout so he can slither away.

ALPA? That'd be a joke. I've been there with them. They never stood up for us regional guys. Anyone who says they do only needs to look at the wonderful "flow through agreements" they have negotiated. Ask Midwest Express how they helped them. Or Champion. Both sold out by ALPO National and NWA. Even JetBlue said "no thanks."

Ask the cargo guys about ALPA. Atlas and Polar just bailed out. Evergreen is next.

Now in fairness they did just win at AirTran. Let's see how long that lasts with Delta being the big dog in ALPA...and ATL.

I'm willing to put my faith in Hoffa and Bourne a lot more than Sowell and his supporters.

Now that the rock has been lifted, the roaches are scurrying....:rawk:

 

[MusketeerMan]

The IBT Airline Division is a complete and utter mess. Gene Sowell was holding three positions and getting paid for each of them while doing very little actual work. I'm told that he is the third-highest paid Teamsters employee in the entire organization. Something to the tune of $375k prior to expenses, all for doing just about nothing for a corrupt local like 747.

Time for ALPA, guys.

So, does ALPA have interest only when you become a certain size? Long before my time when CHQ went to ALPA about organizing with them, they gave us the finger...has much changed??

And yes, the salaries are ridiculous at IBT, about as disgusting as they are at ALPA.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I called the 747 office on Friday...they had 4 senior, experienced airline pilots there serving us! The Assistant Trustee who has extensive experience as a union leader, ALPA MEC Chairman and Vice President.

Watch that guy very carefully. He was run out of dodge because he lied repeatedly about his military service in order to get his job and his ALPA position. He made all kinds of claims about being in the special forces, earning a Congressional Medal of Honor, etc...., all of which were completely untrue. When he was exposed, he tucked tail and ran, bowing out of the ALPA Presidential race because he was completely disgraced. Now he attacks ALPA even after ALPA fought tooth and nail to get his job back after his company fired him for lying about his military service. True scumbag.

ALPA? That'd be a joke. I've been there with them. They never stood up for us regional guys. Anyone who says they do only needs to look at the wonderful "flow through agreements" they have negotiated. Ask Midwest Express how they helped them. Or Champion. Both sold out by ALPO National and NWA. Even JetBlue said "no thanks."

I shouldn't even respond to someone who's so juvenile to use the term "ALPO," but what the hell. ALPA's flow-through agreements are working pretty well. A huge number of pilots from Mesaba and Compass will be flowing to Delta over the next 10 years. The Eagle agreement didn't work out too well, but it's much harder to get a favorable flow-through when the mainline carrier is represented by a different union. In-fighting has been going on between the two groups for years.

Midwest was represented very well by ALPA. The MEA MEC didn't feel the need to negotiate strong scope language previously (their own mistake), and they got burned. ALPA fought hard in court to help them, but the contract language just wasn't there. The former MEA MEC Chairman, Captain Jay Snedorf is still an ALPA supporter, even though he got furloughed after the outsourcing.

I'm not sure what you think ALPA did wrong with Champion. ALPA can't stop managements from running companies out of business through bad business practices. The former CHA MEC Chairman still does volunteer work for ALPA, even though he doesn't work for an ALPA carrier. I think that says a lot about what ALPA did to help the Champion pilots.

As for JetBlue, ALPA wasn't organizing JetBlue. The JetBlue pilots were trying to form their own in-house union, which would have been a complete disaster. Now there is an active ALPA campaign going on there, and hopefully there will be a vote within the next year or so. The JetBlue pilots desperately need ALPA.

Ask the cargo guys about ALPA. Atlas and Polar just bailed out. Evergreen is next.

Ask the Capital Cargo and Evergreen pilots, both of which joined ALPA within the past few years after seeing how horribly in-house unions are run. There is a large ALPA groundswell starting up over at Kalitta right now, also, after they've endured years of horrible IBT representation. I hear the Omni guys are also starting to realize that the IBT wasn't a good choice. Then of course there are the FedEx pilots, which have the industry-leading contract, which was ratified by over 90% of their pilots, a record ratification vote for such a large group.

Now in fairness they did just win at AirTran. Let's see how long that lasts with Delta being the big dog in ALPA...and ATL.

The DAL MEC spent a lot of time and money out of their own dues revenue to help us merge with ALPA. Captain Moak devoted his own volunteers to our merger drive, at his MEC's expense, to work our road shows. DALPA is an ATN MEC supporter, not an enemy. You Teamster guys can't seem to understand that pilots are all in this together, and we all need to be on the same team (ALPA). One huge international union that represents all North American pilots is the way to rebuild this profession. Captain Moak certainly understands that.

I'm willing to put my faith in Hoffa and Bourne a lot more than Sowell and his supporters.

They may be much better than their predecessors, but I certainly wouldn't put any faith in them, that's for sure.

So, does ALPA have interest only when you become a certain size? Long before my time when CHQ went to ALPA about organizing with them, they gave us the finger...has much changed??

Yes. ALPA's attitude on organizing smaller carriers changed many years ago under Captain Woerth's leadership. This can be seen in the recent organizing drives at carriers like Commutair and Colgan. Hell, ALPA even organized a pilot group in Canada last year that has only a few dozen pilots.

And yes, the salaries are ridiculous at IBT, about as disgusting as they are at ALPA.

The staff at ALPA is paid very fairly. And no attorney makes anything close to Sowell's perverse level of compensation, that's for sure.

 

[Velocipede]

Like I referenced on the org, IBT representation is HORRIBLE.

A lot of QX guys would agree with you, as did NetJets. They decertified the IBT.

Time for ALPA, guys.

I agree, although policing your local MEC officers isn't a bad idea. It appears this group got way out of hand and National had to step in. Its happened at ALPA as you well know.

When he was exposed, he tucked tail and ran, bowing out of the ALPA Presidential race because he was completely disgraced. Now he attacks ALPA even after ALPA fought tooth and nail to get his job back after his company fired him for lying about his military service. True scumbag.

Yeah, I took a lot of flak when I "ratted" out his campaign for using the ALPA boards illegally.

The Eagle agreement didn't work out too well, but it's much harder to get a favorable flow-through when the mainline carrier is represented by a different union. In-fighting has been going on between the two groups for years.

Yep, its hard to get different unions on the same page.

I'm not sure what you think ALPA did wrong with Champion. ALPA can't stop managements from running companies out of business through bad business practices.

Its amazing how many otherwise intelligent pilots can't get their minds around this concept. All you have to do is visit aviation websites (though not so much here) and it doesn't take long before you find the "ALPO screwed me" hostile boneheads. :banghead:

As for JetBlue, ALPA wasn't organizing JetBlue. The JetBlue pilots were trying to form their own in-house union, which would have been a complete disaster.

Maybe. Maybe not. I do think they'd realize the error of their way eventually just as NPA did.

Now there is an active ALPA campaign going on there, and hopefully there will be a vote within the next year or so. The JetBlue pilots desperately need ALPA.

You're more optimistic than I am. jetBlue is populated by a LOT of ex-USAir, UAL, TWA and ex-military pilots who either blame their furloughs on ALPA (see above bullet) or have never (in the case of military guys) had their livelihoods effected by airline "managers."

You Teamster guys can't seem to understand that pilots are all in this together, and we all need to be on the same team (ALPA). One huge international union that represents all North American pilots is the way to rebuild this profession.

Yes. ALPA's attitude on organizing smaller carriers changed many years ago under Captain Woerth's leadership. This can be seen in the recent organizing drives at carriers like Commutair and Colgan. Hell, ALPA even organized a pilot group in Canada last year that has only a few dozen pilots.

A fact conveniently "forgotten" by the naysayers.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I agree, although policing your local MEC officers isn't a bad idea. It appears this group got way out of hand and National had to step in. Its happened at ALPA as you well know.

Yes, trusteeship has happened on rare occasion at ALPA carriers, but not quite in the same way it happened in this case. This one happened in truly spectacular fashion. I hear they actually changed the locks on the doors in IND and HOU, then they had security escort Sowell out of the building. That's one hell of an exit!

 

[RAHegional]

Thought I recognized this handle from elsewhere. You post on other sites too as PCL_128. Seems that everyone who questions you is lying or a scumbag. Aren't you one of the guys who ran defense for ALPA when they were trying to get AirTran aboard?

Watch that guy very carefully. He was run out of dodge because he lied repeatedly about his military service in order to get his job and his ALPA position. He made all kinds of claims about being in the special forces, earning a Congressional Medal of Honor, etc...., all of which were completely untrue. When he was exposed, he tucked tail and ran, bowing out of the ALPA Presidential race because he was completely disgraced. Now he attacks ALPA even after ALPA fought tooth and nail to get his job back after his company fired him for lying about his military service. True scumbag.

Calling someone a "true scumbag" is unprofessional. I watched what that guy did for his people at DHL. Pretty damn good representation from what I saw and a damn good contract too. Do you have specific knowledge you can share with us about how he has not professionally represented pilots?


I shouldn't even respond to someone who's so juvenile to use the term "ALPO," but what the hell. ALPA's flow-through agreements are working pretty well. A huge number of pilots from Mesaba and Compass will be flowing to Delta over the next 10 years. The Eagle agreement didn't work out too well, but it's much harder to get a favorable flow-through when the mainline carrier is represented by a different union. In-fighting has been going on between the two groups for years.

"Didn't work out too well" is not quite what the Eagle guys call it. The USAirways and UAL codeshares are all ALPA, with the exception of a couple. They've been wanting a flow through since the mid 1980's. How are their code shares that ALPA negiotiated for them?

Midwest was represented very well by ALPA. The MEA MEC didn't feel the need to negotiate strong scope language previously (their own mistake), and they got burned. ALPA fought hard in court to help them, but the contract language just wasn't there. The former MEA MEC Chairman, Captain Jay Snedorf is still an ALPA supporter, even though he got furloughed after the outsourcing.

That's odd. I've known their former Negotiating Chairman for years, and met Schnedorf via him several times. To say he is an "ALPA supporter" is a bit of a gross overstatement. And the former Negotiating Chairman is now a representative of the IBT. Is he a scumbag too since he quit ALPA?

I'm not sure what you think ALPA did wrong with Champion. ALPA can't stop managements from running companies out of business through bad business practices. The former CHA MEC Chairman still does volunteer work for ALPA, even though he doesn't work for an ALPA carrier. I think that says a lot about what ALPA did to help the Champion pilots.

Is he working for free? I heard he got a sweetheart deal from the President of ALPA. Did the CHA guys get anything?

As for JetBlue, ALPA wasn't organizing JetBlue. The JetBlue pilots were trying to form their own in-house union, which would have been a complete disaster. Now there is an active ALPA campaign going on there, and hopefully there will be a vote within the next year or so. The JetBlue pilots desperately need ALPA.

To hear the JetBlue guys say it (I jumpseat on them a bit), they want nothing to do with ALPA. They said if the choice was ALPA or in-house, they'd go alone in a heartbeat. I thought that was odd, but the seem pretty much to not want anything to do with ALPA.

Ask the Capital Cargo and Evergreen pilots, both of which joined ALPA within the past few years after seeing how horribly in-house unions are run. There is a large ALPA groundswell starting up over at Kalitta right now, also, after they've endured years of horrible IBT representation. I hear the Omni guys are also starting to realize that the IBT wasn't a good choice. Then of course there are the FedEx pilots, which have the industry-leading contract, which was ratified by over 90% of their pilots, a record ratification vote for such a large group.

On that other board you post on so much, the FedEx guys hate their leadership and feel sold down the river by DW and company. A Kalitta guy I know said they're going to 1224 with ABX and Atlas and are tickled. They don't want ALPA either.

The DAL MEC spent a lot of time and money out of their own dues revenue to help us merge with ALPA. Captain Moak devoted his own volunteers to our merger drive, at his MEC's expense, to work our road shows. DALPA is an ATN MEC supporter, not an enemy. You Teamster guys can't seem to understand that pilots are all in this together, and we all need to be on the same team (ALPA). One huge international union that represents all North American pilots is the way to rebuild this profession. Captain Moak certainly understands that.

So it's "us Teamster guys again?" The ones who welcome you on our jumpseats while people like the UAL MEC Chairman say ALPA should deny us the j/s? Why? Are we lesser human beings? Your President keeps referring to us as a union that supports bakers, truck drivers, laborers and such. What's wrong with being part of a union that has 1.4 million voices? Do ALPA pilots fly airplanes better than Teamster pilots?

They may be much better than their predecessors, but I certainly wouldn't put any faith in them, that's for sure.

I dunno, that Bourne guy did pretty good for his pilots, to hear them speak. He was the Vice President of the ALPA Presidents Committee for cargo. Didn't he shut down his airline in sympathy for Polar too?? Did any other ALPA carriers show that kind of support?

Yes. ALPA's attitude on organizing smaller carriers changed many years ago under Captain Woerth's leadership. This can be seen in the recent organizing drives at carriers like Commutair and Colgan. Hell, ALPA even organized a pilot group in Canada last year that has only a few dozen pilots.


The staff at ALPA is paid very fairly. And no attorney makes anything close to Sowell's perverse level of compensation, that's for sure.

Well yeah, but none of them were Presidents of a Local with 5,000 members either. I'm sure not gonna defend Sowell, I'm glad he's finally gone and they're uncovering his misdeeds and airing it to the world. You know what they say about fresh air and sunshine.

Doesn't the ALPA president make about $400 grand with his bennies? And the General Manager about the same? I know their attorneys make over $275K in some cases. That's a lot of coinage. With all the job cuts, furloughs and pay cuts are any of them taking a pay cut, or are the members paying for their fancy lifestyles?

Is it true that the officers get new cars? And one of them had ALPA buy him a tricked out Mustang? I saw the pics but couldn't believe it! Nice gig!

I haven't seen any industry leading contracts from ALPA lately. And Sowell has been a joke. So right now, I'll stick with these new guys and see what they do. They at least seem focused on improving representation.

And seriously man, you shouldn't trash someone like you did. That guy came here to help us. I respect a man who stood up and admitted his mistakes to his Group and set the record straight. I was there. Before I lost my job at an ALPA carrier. None of us saw anyone at ALPA breaking down walls to help us get hired. It was always, "geez, that's tough."

They were happy to get your dues though!

 

[Polar742]

Since my airline was brought up, and I used to work, presumably, at the same airline you do, I'll take it upon myself to comment.

I've been sitting back watching this for awhile. Hey Peter! Time to crawl out of Gene's pocket. We're all way over him and 'ol Tiffy. The charges against Gene are pretty clear and it's the same thing that everyone else in 747 has been talking about. Gene's gonna represent us? When?

I'm even surprised he dug into the budget to replace Hank Ward. Remember him?

A lot of folks have been waiting for this day. We knew it would never happen with Treichler at the wheel. The guys at Kalitta are leaving for 1224. Lucky them.

1224.....time will tell.

I called the 747 office on Friday...they had 4 senior, experienced airline pilots there serving us! The Assistant Trustee who has extensive experience as a union leader, ALPA MEC Chairman and Vice President. The guy I spoke with was the former ALPA Vice Chairman of the National Bargaining Committee and QUIT ALPA to join the Teamsters Airline Division as a representative for the International for crewmembers. Wow. The TRUSTEE is the former Local 1224 President...now THERE'S a lousy contract!!! (Did Gene negotiate this one? He always refers to it like he did!)

Interesting....I haven't seen any communications from them.

What do you have against Bourne taking out corrupt leadership? Are you scared of something?

I looked up Bourne and asked this guy how well he knew him. He said he watched Bourne represent his guys at ALPA. The guy was elected to THREE CONSECUTIVE terms by his pilots. (He even ran a clean race!) He elevated the opinion of the members of his group in all of the other carriers eyes so much that he became a National Committee Vice Chairmen.

hmmm...wonder if he'd be interested in leading a regional airline group whose leaders hands are in Sowell's pockets.:yup:

Sounds like Bourne has pretty strong bona fides to me. A lot better than Sowell. And light years better than Treichler. I'm glad Hoffa has a LEADER for the Airline Division for once.

Just for your FYI, this link: http://forums.jetcareers.com/1150417-post1.html yeah, that's the CBA voted in during Mr. Bourne's term.

Also, let's look at a chronological order of Bourne's transition to IBT:
1) Dave Bourne quits his position as MEC chairman.
2) Atlas gives Dave Bourne a "personal leave"
3) Dave Bourne is announced in his present position

Seem the slightest fishy?

I'm betting Gene's gonna fold like a cheap suit and beg for a buyout so he can slither away.

While he is to be credited for writing the scope that prevented BB from whipsawing you to 20/hr as a 70 jet Captain, I'd agree with the above.

ALPA? That'd be a joke. I've been there with them. They never stood up for us regional guys. Anyone who says they do only needs to look at the wonderful "flow through agreements" they have negotiated. Ask Midwest Express how they helped them. Or Champion. Both sold out by ALPO National and NWA. Even JetBlue said "no thanks."

I hope you don't ever need medical help from the IBT. Ever. Ask a couple of our guys that went on leave since we left IBT.

Ask the cargo guys about ALPA. Atlas and Polar just bailed out. Evergreen is next.

Ask away. And for the record, the Atlas/Polar vote corresponded along party lines. So, Atlas bailed, Polar got drug along via a (it was our own faults for not filing objections) Single Craft Class Status ruling.

Now in fairness they did just win at AirTran. Let's see how long that lasts with Delta being the big dog in ALPA...and ATL.

op:

I'm willing to put my faith in Hoffa and Bourne a lot more than Sowell and his supporters.

op:X2

Now that the rock has been lifted, the roaches are scurrying....:rawk:

While I agree, there's a saying: "It's not the roaches you see, it's the ones you don't.

 

[RAHegional]

Hey, I'm just glad Treichler left and now Sowell appears to have been given the boot. I'm hoping our guys wake up and quit covering for Sowell.

The new guys? Time will tell. But at least the spotlight is on them. Anything is better than what we had under Sowell.

Anything.

 

[Polar742]

Hey, I'm just glad Treichler left and now Sowell appears to have been given the boot. I'm hoping our guys wake up and quit covering for Sowell.

The new guys? Time will tell. But at least the spotlight is on them. Anything is better than what we had under Sowell.

Anything.

That's fine and good thought.

But I wouldn't say "ANYTHING" is better....

Just a thought. I contacted one of the underground rebellion over at RAH, and have yet to get a return call from him....

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Thought I recognized this handle from elsewhere. You post on other sites too as PCL_128. Seems that everyone who questions you is lying or a scumbag. Aren't you one of the guys who ran defense for ALPA when they were trying to get AirTran aboard?

"Ran defense?" No, ALPA doesn't need a "defense." The facts simply speak for themselves. You just don't seem overly fond of the facts.

Calling someone a "true scumbag" is unprofessional.

No, lying about military service is unprofessional. Lowest of the low, in fact.

I watched what that guy did for his people at DHL. Pretty damn good representation from what I saw and a damn good contract too. Do you have specific knowledge you can share with us about how he has not professionally represented pilots?

From what I hear, he was constantly lobbying for a management position while he was concurrently serving as MEC Chairman and EVP. Is that what you consider "professional representation?" I certainly don't. He ended up getting his management position after his MEC booted him from office. Then he got fired, of course, after his lies were exposed.

"Didn't work out too well" is not quite what the Eagle guys call it. The USAirways and UAL codeshares are all ALPA, with the exception of a couple. They've been wanting a flow through since the mid 1980's. How are their code shares that ALPA negiotiated for them?

I've never heard much of an outcry from those groups for flow-through deals. Still don't. In fact, most regional guys don't seem to be begging for flow-through agreements.

That's odd. I've known their former Negotiating Chairman for years, and met Schnedorf via him several times. To say he is an "ALPA supporter" is a bit of a gross overstatement. And the former Negotiating Chairman is now a representative of the IBT. Is he a scumbag too since he quit ALPA?

You're wrong about Snedorf. As for the former NC Chairman, I've never met him, but his allegiance suddenly shifted when it personally benefited him.

To hear the JetBlue guys say it (I jumpseat on them a bit), they want nothing to do with ALPA. They said if the choice was ALPA or in-house, they'd go alone in a heartbeat. I thought that was odd, but the seem pretty much to not want anything to do with ALPA.

You collect your information from listening to a few guys while you jumpseat? Very scientific. A large group of JetBlue pilots have already volunteered to be on an ALPA organizing committee. It's looking pretty good.

On that other board you post on so much, the FedEx guys hate their leadership and feel sold down the river by DW and company. A Kalitta guy I know said they're going to 1224 with ABX and Atlas and are tickled. They don't want ALPA either.

And now you're collecting your information from another message board and from "a guy you know?" Again, this is all very scientific. FedEx ALPA scores very well in the approval ratings on the scientific polling data. ALPA has a pretty good list of guys who have called from Kalitta wanting to start an organizing drive. Those are facts, not stuff you "heard from a guy you know."

So it's "us Teamster guys again?" The ones who welcome you on our jumpseats while people like the UAL MEC Chairman say ALPA should deny us the j/s?

Got a quote? I've never seen anything like that from Captain Wallach.

Why? Are we lesser human beings? Your President keeps referring to us as a union that supports bakers, truck drivers, laborers and such. What's wrong with being part of a union that has 1.4 million voices? Do ALPA pilots fly airplanes better than Teamster pilots?

There's nothing wrong with IBT members. They're good union guys just like ALPA members. The problem is with the organization, not the membership. The IBT is a bloated, useless, and corrupt union that has no idea how to represent air line pilots. They're great for representing truckers, but that's about it.

Didn't he shut down his airline in sympathy for Polar too?? Did any other ALPA carriers show that kind of support?

You should ask some Polar pilots about that. They don't exactly view it as a "shut down of his airline." No, they view it as the Atlas pilots crossing their picket lines and flying struck work. The Polar MEC filed Article VIII charges against various Atlas pilots to try to expel them from the union.

Well yeah, but none of them were Presidents of a Local with 5,000 members either.

Captain Lee Moak is the head of the 12,400 member Delta ALPA unit. Know what he makes? The same amount that any other Delta 767 Captain makes. And he does a hell of a job, unlike Sowell.

Doesn't the ALPA president make about $400 grand with his bennies? And the General Manager about the same?

No.

I know their attorneys make over $275K in some cases.

Only the management attorneys make that kind of cash, and there is only a handful of them. Most ALPA attorneys make far less. And again, they do a far better job than Sowell.

That's a lot of coinage. With all the job cuts, furloughs and pay cuts are any of them taking a pay cut, or are the members paying for their fancy lifestyles?[/B]

The latest proposal from UALPAPAE Unit 1 (the union that represents ALPA's attorneys and other professional staff) includes pay cuts and concessions. They've hurt since 9/11 just as we have.

Is it true that the officers get new cars? And one of them had ALPA buy him a tricked out Mustang? I saw the pics but couldn't believe it! Nice gig!

The ALPA National Officers get a car "similar to a Ford Towncar." Since the Officers don't usually live in DC, they need housing and transportation in DC. It's either get them a car, or pay for cab fare 5-7 days a week (astronomically more expensive than the car).

I haven't seen any industry leading contracts from ALPA lately.

You must have missed the FDX agreement.

And seriously man, you shouldn't trash someone like you did.

I have zero respect for someone who lies about his military service for his own benefit.

 

[surreal1221]

What is it with the coddling of people who lie about their military service records?

Or is this internet web forum bravado at it's finest?

I'd also like to see the pictures of this ALPA staffer's tricked out Mustang.

 

[MikeD]

What is it with the coddling of people who lie about their military service records?

.

[thread sidebar]

What is it with people that do this? And why would a guy lying about his military service, go so far as to claim he earned the Medal of Honor? As if THAT dosen't highlight you and isn't easy enough to track down and confirm....there's been what (off the top of my head), 4 or so awarded in the last 30 years?

[/thread sidebar]

 

[RAHegional]

I thought this was about the good news of Sowell leaving and a wake up call to the guys carrying his water.

I really don't give a rip about what ALPA is doing when they have people who continually refer to other unions in such a derrogatory manner. The new leadership had to come from somewhere, but since they apparently left ALPA, they get run down by those guys. Why? Did they forget to turn in their secret ALPA decoder rings? Why do you keep refering to the Teamsters as a bunch of truckers? We're in the Airline Division.

I pay my union dues for representation when I need it and good contract negotiations when the time comes. And you know, if it comes to a strike, it would be nice to have a bunch of other union members who deliver the fuel, the bags or turn the wrenches, refuse to cross my picket line. I want solidarity across the spectrum.

You said the Atlas pilots crossed a picket line and flew struck work? Why didn't you also say that the ALPA report issued by two retired ALPA National officers who heard the testimony from both sides and said every charge filed against Atlas was false? ALPA even had to issue a public apology and renounce the false charges. Even the Polar Strike Chairman said publicly that Atlas pilots did not fly struck work. They flew their own planes for their own customers on their own contract. Either you are fronting for ALPA or you seem to have a personal axe to grind with those guys and Bourne. Did you not have an interview go well or something? If that's it, geez, maybe you didn't meet their quals or just had a bad day. We all do.

Like I said, this is about change at 747. Am I missing something? Is anyone upset about corrupt leadership being removed?

 

[surreal1221]

[thread sidebar]

What is it with people that do this? And why would a guy lying about his military service, go so far as to claim he earned the Medal of Honor? As if THAT dosen't highlight you and isn't easy enough to track down and confirm....there's been what (off the top of my head), 4 or so awarded in the last 30 years?

[/thread sidebar]

I don't recall the year, but it was in the 03-06 time frame. Seemed like there was a rash of Navy Chiefs and junior officers who were wearing ribbons that they were not authorized to wear. I mention Navy, because I distinctly remember reading about the huge PR failure and clear lack of espirt de corps those members displayed.

Nevertheless, people like that are in every branch of the military. Uniform accessories are just a tad bit too easy to come by.

Is anyone upset about corrupt leadership being removed?

Why should people be upset when corrupt leadership is being removed?

I don't know, but I'd be extremely happy if any element of corrupt leadership and management were being shown the door - certainly not upset.

 

[MikeD]

I don't recall the year, but it was in the 03-06 time frame. Seemed like there was a rash of Navy Chiefs and junior officers who were wearing ribbons that they were not authorized to wear. I mention Navy, because I distinctly remember reading about the huge PR failure and clear lack of espirt de corps those members displayed.

Nevertheless, people like that are in every branch of the military. Uniform accessories are just a tad bit too easy to come by.
.

Now that you bring that up, I do remember one of the former Navy CNOs....Adm Boorda, I think his name was.....who committed suicide following allegations of something similar. Was in the late-90s timeframe. Following this, more personnel were found to be doing the same thing as you mention. This incident may have been the one that blew the lid off of the practice.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I thought this was about the good news of Sowell leaving and a wake up call to the guys carrying his water.

Yes, it was until you launched an attack on ALPA.

Why do you keep refering to the Teamsters as a bunch of truckers? We're in the Airline Division.

Because it's harmful to our profession to have the IBT representing air line pilots. They don't know what they're doing, and it divides us rather than bringing us together under one union umbrella.

And you know, if it comes to a strike, it would be nice to have a bunch of other union members who deliver the fuel, the bags or turn the wrenches, refuse to cross my picket line. I want solidarity across the spectrum.

The problem is that the Teamsters never do that. They use that as a "selling point" when they're trying to organize pilot groups, but it never materializes. Ask the former ATA pilots about that. And talking about solidarity, maybe you should ask the IBT why they left the AFL-CIO and stiffed them for multi-millions in back-dues. Yeah, that really shows solidarity across the spectrum.

You said the Atlas pilots crossed a picket line and flew struck work?

No, I didn't say that, I said that many Polar pilots say that. I wasn't there, so I don't know who is correct.

Either you are fronting for ALPA or you seem to have a personal axe to grind with those guys and Bourne. Did you not have an interview go well or something? If that's it, geez, maybe you didn't meet their quals or just had a bad day. We all do.

Never applied or interviewed at either carrier. Flying long-haul international ain't my bag, baby.

Like I said, this is about change at 747. Am I missing something? Is anyone upset about corrupt leadership being removed?

I'm glad that Sowell was removed, but replacing him with an assistant trustee like Brannan doesn't improve the situation. It might make it worse. It's a shame that Bourne couldn't find someone of a higher caliber to do the job.