Behind the Southwest Airlines Culture

[kellwolf]

From what i've heard it is about the only way you can get on at Lufthansa. Before you step in the door you have to take a battery of tests that makes entry into the air force look easy.
This video is in german but you can use CC translate.

And this is why you can't compare low time civilian pilots in the US to ab initio pilots elsewhere. You need more than a large bank account or a co-signer to get in. Pre-screening and testing weed out a chunk of the people that would be weak on the other side. Meanwhile, programs in the US train to minimum standards while using DEs that give the same check ride every time. So, basically you click the boxes, train your student to pass a specific test (essentially just giving them the answers) and calling it good.

 

[nabbyfan]

Many of the Airtran folks I run into at work are unhappy, unpersonable, and not very pleasant to work with. In all honesty, if they had to go through a SWA interview, I doubt many of them would have been hired. As a ramper, you can always tell when the pilot thinks he is better than you and talks down to you like you're some kind of idiot because your're on the ramp. Its rare to get that feeling from a SWA pilot, but its almost every AirTran flight that the pilots don't talk to us with any respect. Something as simple as stopping to say "Hi, How are you guys doing down here" on their walkaround (Something just about every SWA pilot does) would go a long way towards making us feel more like one united company.

 

[Cptnchia]

Keep in mind that if they had wanted to work for SWA, I'm sure their attitude would be a whole lot better. A majority of the AirTran folks didn't want to be bought by SWA in the first place and after the cramdown, I'm sure their not feeling any luv to share around.

 

[MikeD]

Keep in mind that if they had wanted to work for SWA, I'm sure their attitude would be a whole lot better. A majority of the AirTran folks didn't want to be bought by SWA in the first place and after the cramdown, I'm sure their not feeling any luv to share around.

While I agree with you that that's the case of not wanting to have bought by SWA, their attitude and negativity is still misplaced if they're taking it out on the line and maintenance folks, for those pilots in fact doing that. Pretty shameful for people who are supposed to be professionals. Take it out on SWA corporate if they feel so strongly..

 

[nabbyfan]

Nobody is forcing them to work for Southwest if they don't want to, there are a ton of pilots who would be happy to take their spot if they can't handle it. I understand being a little frustrated at the merger, but the fact is we're one company now and in it together. Not saying every AirTran pilot is like that, but unfortunately a lot are. I'm hoping it just takes them awhile of seeing the SWA way of doing things and they will come around. There are a LOT worse airlines to be bought by than us!

 

[kellwolf]

Until another airline calls, yeah they kinda are forced to work at SWA. "If you don't like it, leave" isn't as easy in this job as it is in other fields like marketing.

Some of them may even be in the process of getting out (cough cough ATNPilot), but it takes time for that to happen.

 

[Cptnchia]

Nobody is forcing them to work for Southwest if they don't want to, there are a ton of pilots who would be happy to take their spot if they can't handle it. I understand being a little frustrated at the merger, but the fact is we're one company now and in it together.

Easy to say when you are part of the entity that moved their cheese. FWIW, it would be a spectacle to see the Airtran pilots quit en masse and the resulting schedule meltdown.

 

[derg]

Nobody is forcing them to work for Southwest if they don't want to, there are a ton of pilots who would be happy to take their spot if they can't handle it. I understand being a little frustrated at the merger, but the fact is we're one company now and in it together. Not saying every AirTran pilot is like that, but unfortunately a lot are. I'm hoping it just takes them awhile of seeing the SWA way of doing things and they will come around. There are a LOT worse airlines to be bought by than us!

There are always a 'ton of pilots to take those jobs', but 90% of them will probably be bitching about the same thing after the "oxytocin" of shiny jet syndrome starts.

I work for a pretty good airline and fly a fairly large airplane. I also hear a lot of bitching behind the locked cockpit door. Pilots are happy until they're unhappy, industry-wide.

 

[nabbyfan]

There are always a 'ton of pilots to take those jobs', but 90% of them will probably be bitching about the same thing after the "oxytocin" of shiny jet syndrome starts.

I work for a pretty good airline and fly a fairly large airplane. I also hear a lot of bitching behind the locked cockpit door. Pilots are happy until they're unhappy, industry-wide.

All the majority of the rampers at my station do is bitch once they get inside after the flight too, its annoying. The union is negotiating a new contract and the company isn't offering us anything really, but when you look at what we already have, its not totally unreasonable to see what corporate is offering. We have it pretty good....on an average shift at the gate we're only doing 5-6 flights and spending the rest of the time watching ESPN and still making more money than most regional pilots. Our topped out guys make over $100K a year...kind of crazy!

I'm only ramping until I hopefully get a call from the FAA someday, but it's certainly been interesting being at a carrier like WN where we've absorbed AirTran and taken some of their ramp employees on at my station. Every airline has its own little culture and personality, but I can honestly say I'm proud to work for SWA. If you ride the employee shuttle and see some of the other airline crews, they are all frustrated at having been worked over by their airline. While Gary isn't Herb, he still leads an airline that honestly cares about their employees well being as well as the bottom line.

As a ramp employee, I just dont want to see us become US Airways, with 2 groups of employees that hate each other when they should be working together to make their new airline as great as possible. Theres not a whole lot I can do to accomplish that, but I try to be polite with all the TRS people and hopefully make an impression that WN is a good place to be.

 

[derg]

Fantastic. Enjoy!

 

[kellwolf]

I think the issue with the ramp is less on getting more and more on job security. At least, that's what my ramp buddies there are telling me. Sounds like the job itself hasn't changed much since I was there. We got paid well for the job and did about the same as you. Smaller stations had it even easier. The difference is that guys that have been there 10+ years are remembering how things USED to be. You knew that they weren't gonna call DAL Global to do the ground service in your station since SWA was all about the brand, control and taking care of its people. Apparently, all of that has changed and guys that have made ramping a career for 15-20 years are staring at the potential of being sold down the river in favor of an 18 year old that'll do the job for half (or less) and no health benefits. I think it has to do with feeling betrayed by a company you bled for and helped to get where they are turning their back on you.

 

[jynxyjoe]

...You knew that they weren't gonna call DAL Global to do the ground service in your station since SWA was all about the brand, control and taking care of its people... I think it has to do with feeling betrayed by a company you bled for and helped to get where they are turning their back on you.

Hehe, wait 15 years until the outsourced SWA ramp is pushed by SWA to "protect the brand", and it's been long enough people actually buy into it. Delta is actually making a weird attempt at brand control at DGS. My wife and I find it preposterous but they are trying something new and they all have to swing with it until Delta gives up finally. I'm sure it'll be a good topic at the next Delta picnic, but hey- free beer and dogs!

It's strange to me (and perhaps a separate topic) there is still this attempt, even now, to pretend we are all part of the Delta family. The corporate family idea is so betrayed you can look at an outsourced rampie, and an outsourced pilot married, and everyone nodding together saying "it's nice we still have a family of employees". This family is praying quietly to join another family as soon as possible. It makes them money so far be it for me to question it.