Beech 1900 Lack of Autopilot Question

The aircraft was certified under Part 23 (commuter category) standards. Does not require things like autopilot, flight control disconnects, or the same electrical bus separations you are required to have on a Part 25 aircraft. You can always add it on but it costs $$$

Part 23 is much easier to certify than Part 25 aircraft. Part 23 aircraft in the commuter clause cannot weigh more than 19,000lbs on takeoff. 1900 pilots: What is the max takeoff weight of the 1900 (17,120 or something. Like to hear from the guys with a lav onboard the 1900)? Autopilots cost a lot of money and weight that could be a pax bag, you don't need it.

Max weight on the 1900C model is actually 17710 with the thousand pound gross weight freight increase :rawk::rawk::rawk:, plus whatever the ground crew doesn't tell you about
 
The flight director on the EFIS was descent enough and plus the plane was very very stable for a tprop, I don't remember having stories of handling issues as much as Metro and Emb120 guys do. Most of the time you'd get up to altitude trim and it would fly on it's own. Navigating wasn't difficult because after a few trips you'd memorize all the frequencies and change over points, it was the visuals into uncontrolled airports which was about 70% of the airports, that were the scariest, had many close calls.
 
How is it possible to perform essential pilot duties in the 1900 without autopilot? For instance, reading the USA Today, AM radio, and eating?
 
Poor peoplepilots have to have an SIC anyway. Freight it's autopilot in lieu of SIC. The FO probably weighs more, and is far less reliable, but it does have the advantage of being cheaper. Me, I prefer George.
 
:banghead:Unfortunately it all comes down to dollars. It's a symptom of airlines trying to operate as cheeply as possible. As it has been said in this thread, the 1900 is certified under part 23 and any additional equipment adds weight and costs money directly with installation and up keep, indirectly with reducing the amount of passengers or frieght it can carry, not to mention the additional fuel cost. One of many examples of not installing equipment unless it is federaly mandated is American Airlines Flight 191 that had a stickshaker installed on the Captain's side, but not on the first officer's side. When power was lost to the left side of the aircraft the first officer had no idea they were about to stall. After the crash stickshakers are now required on both sides of the flight deck. Standards written in blood.
It's true that the 1900 is intended for short hops and the workload wouldn't be that effected, but then again who knows what the addition of an auto pilot would have, good or bad.
Eitherway, I tip my had to all of you pilots. May your wings carry you safely across the sky.
SafetyEngineer :)
SafetyEngineer@cox.net
 
Flying the 1900 for 500 hours when out of flight training in the Northeast, Northwest, Midwest, or Rockies, should be required for all commercial airline pilots.

Makes your aviation nuts drop and puts hair on your balls.
 
Max weight on the 1900C model is actually 17710 with the thousand pound gross weight freight increase :rawk::rawk::rawk:, plus whatever the ground crew doesn't tell you about

You continue to show that you are a safe, legal and proficient pilot.
 
The answer to why there is no autopilot in the 1900 is simple economics. It is cheaper to train a "human" autopilot (first officer) than it is to install and maintain one. For the same reason we didn't have a GPS in the 1900, GPS is ill-suited to operations in the northeast corridor on short route segments. The costs of maintaining the GPS vs. the benefit doesn't justify it's installation.
And, it truly does make a pilot out of you to do non-precision approaches to "no-####e" minimums in places like Bluefield, WV in moderate icing. As crazy as it sounds I lived for that kind of thing...Or doing the ILS 24 ACK with 30 knot crosswind component and circling to 15..That will put some hair on your nuts!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
 
The answer to why there is no autopilot in the 1900 is simple economics. It is cheaper to train a "human" autopilot (first officer) than it is to install and maintain one. For the same reason we didn't have a GPS in the 1900, GPS is ill-suited to operations in the northeast corridor on short route segments. The costs of maintaining the GPS vs. the benefit doesn't justify it's installation.
And, it truly does make a pilot out of you to do non-precision approaches to "no-####e" minimums in places like Bluefield, WV in moderate icing. As crazy as it sounds I lived for that kind of thing...Or doing the ILS 24 ACK with 30 knot crosswind component and circling to 15..That will put some hair on your nuts!

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead


As much as I hated the lifestyle of the 1900, when I actually got off the ground it still is some of the best flying Iv'e done, especially NE during winter. You're actually a pilot vs tech support.
 
Anyone who has any amount of time in a BAe31/32 reading this and laughing?

Take away the "stable" characteristics, and the ability to carry more weight than allowed by law. Replace that with "flying characteristics of an out-of-trim Frasca device (no dig to Rudy, RIP)" and "Load Limited all day, any day"

then you approach the mighty JBall....:yar::yar::yar:
 
Flying the J31 was like trying to balance a bowling ball on the end of a baseball bat while shooting the VOR approach to JST in the winter.

Instead of good morning the standard gate-agent greeting was, "What are the restrictions today?"

Not like those B1900D pansies with their "EFIS" and their "decent air conditioning" and their fancy "PT6's" that didn't need you to spin the prop after landing to cool the shaft. Wussies.
 
You continue to show that you are a safe, legal and proficient pilot.


Do I detect a note of sarcasm in your voice? You fly for a company that crams every single possible pound of freight into your bird. There are times when they get it wrong, and you can't really tell until you are taking for ever to hit rotate.

I'm sure you are the best authority on what is safe in aviation and on how to fly. I'm sure you know everything about aviation, and the aviation industry. I bow in deference to your glory. What company are you about to get furloughed from? It is my dream to one day work there so I can be in your shadow. You want to talk about safe and proficient fine, but I haven't heard you add one piece of useful information to these forums, its been cutting down everyone you don't agree with.

Why would someone even say something like that? What possible good could come from that statement? Look, if you want talk about something useful fine, like "why is it that airlines overload their planes?" or something of that nature, then fine, but the "wow, you must be a dumbass" tone in your posts is kinda hard for me to listen to coming from a guy whose whole aviation career has been spent in the right seat at xJet. Not that my career is longer, but really? When was the last time you hand flew an approach? Or were worried that the ERJ wouldn't climb out of icing? Fine, you want to be an ass to me no problem, but I'm done with you.

As much as I hated the lifestyle of the 1900, when I actually got off the ground it still is some of the best flying Iv'e done, especially NE during winter. You're actually a pilot vs tech support.

Look, the hondo is good because your hand flying in dangerous conditions. You're not programming an autopilot. You're not eating your lunch. You're trying to figure out how much ice you should let build up on the boots before you blow em so they wont bridge. You're trying to avoid hitting mountains on complicated DPs, and handflying approaches to mins in ridiculous crosswinds. It was by far the best, most stable, most comfortable, fun airplane I've ever had the chance to fly. It flies like a little fighter, and can carry whatever you put into it. I've seen it with at least 3" of ice on the leading edge and it flew just fine. I've hit turbulence in it so hard it knocked my headset off and the airplane didn't even flinch. The thing is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the wheel. The best airplane, bar none for flying in ###### wx in mountainous conditions.
 
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