Becoming a Pilot

OliverWinn

OliverWinn

New Member
I am a young guy, 19, and I've had a dream of flight since I was a small child. I'm not currently in college, and am weighing my options to becoming a pilot. My original plan was to attend Rocky Mountain College in Billings, MT for their 4-year degree in aeronautical science which included all the ratings required to be hired upon graduation. The only set-back with that is the cost. It's an extremely expensive program, even with the $11,500/year scholarship I was offered. After talking to some pilots (one of which directed me to this forum) who own an airfield a few miles outside of Portland, Oregon, I decided that this wasn't a good route to take, due to the cost, and the fact that airlines generally don't care what your degree is in if you have the required amount of hours. My thoughts now are that I should start attending a community college while doing flight training separately. Some issues that arise with that are, 1: living alone is expensive, 2: working full-time and going to school and taking flight lessons would leave very little time for my girlfriend and 9-month-old daughter, and 3: trying to combine all three of these would extend the time to get even my first rating to over a year, potentially. My idea is that after getting my first rating, I could become a full-time instructor to rack up those hours while completing my other ratings and that would (hopefully) eliminate the necessity for a different full-time job.

My questions are:

1: What route did you take to getting your ratings and how old were you when you started?

2: How long did it take before you were flying as a full-time job?

3: What advice would you give me/how do you suggest I proceed with getting my ratings?
 
I started off flying part 61 at a local airport. Went to college, took a flying hiatus, and then decided I wanted to knock out the all the ratings and pursue it as a fiscal option for the future. Went to an academy in Florida and was done with all within a year.

I started instructing about 1.5 years after I finished my Private license. And if and when you decide to pursue it, make sure you consistently fly and really hit it hard.
 
OliverWinn said:
My idea is that after getting my first rating, I could become a full-time instructor to rack up those hours while completing my other ratings and that would (hopefully) eliminate the necessity for a different full-time job.
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Your first rating is your Private Pilot. Then typically Instrument and then Commercial at 250 hours minimum. Only then can you even think about flight instructing which is another rating you need to obtain as well. Then then there is your Multi-engine commercial, and your Instrument Instructor, and Multi Instructor ratings. At a Bare minimum you need a Multi & Single Engine Commercial to even work at a pilot. Having all instructor ratings will help you reach your goals.

Having said that if you're looking to do this as a local school you are looking at 2-3 years before you start instructing depending on your pace. 6 months per a rating is very possible with a 2-4 lessons a week. If you go full time 5-6 lessons a week and stay committed it could be quicker, same for less lessons a week could be longer. Also weather plays a big role in flight training. And in the PNW you could be grounded for weeks because of it.

Look around your area and contact community colleges to see if any offer a degree in Aviation. Some do! This would help you earn a degree and make getting financial assistance and loan easier. Everyone here will tell you to do this with the least amount of debt possible. Having a huge debt load after training to pay with a low paying entry level job is tough.
 
Having a kid at 19 seems like the result of poor decision making, perhaps aviation is not your strong suit.
 
I'm pretty sure Lane CC in Eugene has a flight program but I'd steer you towards a non-aviation type degree in a second area of interest. You can always fly on the side or do your training later. Hopefully you can qualify for financial aid to get it going. It's not going to be easy but it's doable. If you aren't interested in college, then find a trade that pays well, get trained in it, and save up. There is, and wll be, a shortage of CFI's, and many larger schools might subsidize some training for a commitment to work there later.

Oh, and pay no mind to douchie comments from the peanut gallery. The site isn't supposed to be about that.
 
Having a kid, and doing your rains is going to be hard. Ask me how I know. But, it can be done. Start with college first and foremost. If there is money left, then do flying. Your most difficult task is going to be prioritizing. I would do college/family. Then I would do family/flying. The college would benefit your family immensely in the long run. It may take you 10 years to get it all done so you need to ask yourself how committed you are to this goal.
 
knot4u said:
Having a kid at 19 seems like the result of poor decision making, perhaps aviation is not your strong suit.
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What a ignorant statement......He's an adult and chose to have a child, which has nothing to do with how someone might be as a pilot. His questions were very spot on and he seems to know what would be good for his situation.

To the OP, if you can pay for it as you go, that would be ideal to keep your debt to a minimum and yes get that degree out of the way. Good luck!

Derek
 
Id say get education in a non-aviation field, and make that pay for your flying. Say, become a plumber, and use your plumbing money to support flying. That way, you shouldn't go in any or much debt when you learn to fly. AND most important, you'll have something to fall back on and support your family with should things go awry in this industry.
 
Worry about college first, it will make your life easier in the long run, study something you like and don't mind doing for a whole to support your family and pay for flying as you go. I can tell from how you wrote your question that you pay enough attention to detail and can do your own homework well enough to be successful.

I managed to get 3 CFI certs without being too old first, or spending much money. You can too. In my case, the Air Force put me through college, and I picked up a rating every few years on the side. The flying is easy, honestly. I don't fly for an airline. While I could have (before the 1500 ATP rule), it didn't make sense financially for me. Who knows what will happen in the future, but for now I am happy doing CFI stuff when I have time.

Best of luck, and you will find plenty of help here if you ask!
 
skypilot6 said:
Your first rating is your Private Pilot. Then typically Instrument and then Commercial at 250 hours minimum. Only then can you even think about flight instructing which is another rating you need to obtain as well. Then then there is your Multi-engine commercial, and your Instrument Instructor, and Multi Instructor ratings. At a Bare minimum you need a Multi & Single Engine Commercial to even work at a pilot. Having all instructor ratings will help you reach your goals.

Having said that if you're looking to do this as a local school you are looking at 2-3 years before you start instructing depending on your pace. 6 months per a rating is very possible with a 2-4 lessons a week. If you go full time 5-6 lessons a week and stay committed it could be quicker, same for less lessons a week could be longer. Also weather plays a big role in flight training. And in the PNW you could be grounded for weeks because of it.

Look around your area and contact community colleges to see if any offer a degree in Aviation. Some do! This would help you earn a degree and make getting financial assistance and loan easier. Everyone here will tell you to do this with the least amount of debt possible. Having a huge debt load after training to pay with a low paying entry level job is tough.
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So I would need to have 250 hours and three ratings before I can start instructing? And what kind of money could I expect with instructing full-time? Enough to live off of? With my financial situation (no debt, but no fat stacks laying around) I couldn't do full time training, it would most likely be on the weekends, so no more than two lessons a week. It's my understanding that I need 40 hours minimum before I can get my private license? I've lived everywhere from Iowa to Montana to Oregon. I'm in Oregon right now and the weather is pretty bad during the winter, so that could be a major setback also.

I have looked into community colleges with aviation degrees, but the pilots I talked to near Portland advised me against an aviation degree. I think I'm going to lean away from a degree in aviation because if, for any reason, I can't fly, then I would have something to fall back on. I'm thinking a more practical degree, such as engineering or business, possibly even aircraft maintenance, so at least I would stay close to the general industry. Debt is one of my main concerns. I don't want to graduate and have six months before I start paying back my student loans at $12,000/year when I'm barely even making that while flying. I am well aware that entry-level pilots do not make very much for the amount of work they do, and believe me, I am not in it for the money, I am in it because I'm fulfilling a dream.

knot4u said:
Having a kid at 19 seems like the result of poor decision making, perhaps aviation is not your strong suit.
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Having a child at my age does not mean I will give up on my dream, nor does it mean I made a bad decision. Please stay on topic.

DE727UPS said:
I'm pretty sure Lane CC in Eugene has a flight program but I'd steer you towards a non-aviation type degree in a second area of interest. You can always fly on the side or do your training later. Hopefully you can qualify for financial aid to get it going. It's not going to be easy but it's doable. If you aren't interested in college, then find a trade that pays well, get trained in it, and save up. There is, and wll be, a shortage of CFI's, and many larger schools might subsidize some training for a commitment to work there later.

Oh, and pay no mind to douchie comments from the peanut gallery. The site isn't supposed to be about that.
Click to expand...

Once again, I think I will aim for a degree in a more practical field. I'm hoping I can use some of the federal aid money to pay for my flight training while in school, but I am not sure how it will all work out. It's my understanding that typically flight instructors come and go, as most are working on their other ratings while training entry-level pilots, is this true? Can you give me an example of some schools that would subsidize training?

This is my first time on this site, I was afraid everyone was going to be like that. Thanks for throwing that worry out.

mshunter said:
Having a kid, and doing your rains is going to be hard. Ask me how I know. But, it can be done. Start with college first and foremost. If there is money left, then do flying. Your most difficult task is going to be prioritizing. I would do college/family. Then I would do family/flying. The college would benefit your family immensely in the long run. It may take you 10 years to get it all done so you need to ask yourself how committed you are to this goal.
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Prioritizing is proving difficult right now. Everyone in my family has extensive college experience, and they would be disappointed if I didn't go. I don't want to disappoint them, but the number one reason I am interested in college is for myself, as I feel it would better me as a person, and also have the potential for better jobs, and therefore, an easier life for myself and my family.
I am extremely committed to this, and there is very little that would and could stop me. The 10-years does not sound attractive at all... I know that there is an age-limit for flying, and I want to make sure I get the most I possibly can out of it.
 
pianokeys said:
Id say get education in a non-aviation field, and make that pay for your flying. Say, become a plumber, and use your plumbing money to support flying. That way, you shouldn't go in any or much debt when you learn to fly. AND most important, you'll have something to fall back on and support your family with should things go awry in this industry.
Click to expand...

That's funny.. I'm doing plumbing right now and considering going into the apprenticeship program, as it's decent money. I want to get a start on my education also though.
Good advice, thank you.

drunkenbeagle said:
Worry about college first, it will make your life easier in the long run, study something you like and don't mind doing for a whole to support your family and pay for flying as you go. I can tell from how you wrote your question that you pay enough attention to detail and can do your own homework well enough to be successful.

I managed to get 3 CFI certs without being too old first, or spending much money. You can too. In my case, the Air Force put me through college, and I picked up a rating every few years on the side. The flying is easy, honestly. I don't fly for an airline. While I could have (before the 1500 ATP rule), it didn't make sense financially for me. Who knows what will happen in the future, but for now I am happy doing CFI stuff when I have time.

Best of luck, and you will find plenty of help here if you ask!
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What do you think about the service? I have considered it, but it would set everything back quite a bit. Tell me more about being in the Air Force, did you join right out of high school? What do you do for a living now? How old were you when you started doing flight instruction, and how did you manage to get your certs without spending too much?

Thanks for the tips, it's appreciated.
 
knot4u said:
Having a kid at 19 seems like the result of poor decision making, perhaps aviation is not your strong suit.
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Perhaps. However, what I believe speaks much more about his character, decision making, and responsibility is the fact that he chose to care for his child and be present in their life. Also, the fact that he considers his child in his future endeavors indicates that he is a man of character.

One might argue that those that judge others on minimal facts and information are those that exhibit not just poor decision making, but even poorer judgement.

To the OP, best of luck. Please don't be discouraged. It seems to me that you're doing all the right things by evaluating your options and seeking advice anywhere it may be found.
 
knot4u said:
Having a kid at 19 seems like the result of poor decision making, perhaps aviation is not your strong suit.
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This is a rude comment. Unacceptable in my mind. You don't know anything about the man.

At OP, a good friend of mine was in a very similar situation when he was 20. He went and got all his ratings at ATP, then went on from there, that was 8 years ago, but he's flying a GIII now as PIC and has a relatively good job for his family, that said, it's a tough road. Make sure that your girlfriend understands that if you do this, you're going to be moving quite a bit for the first several years, and the first 6 years are absolutely hard, but afterwords, this job can be great for a guy with a family but I cannot stress enough how tough the early years are. I fly medevac now and have two boys. I'm on call from home, and make a great salary. It takes time, but this can be a good career for a father.

Academically, what do you enjoy?
 
Go to atps flight school, get the ratings, flight instruct, get a job at a regional. You'll be making a little money then. Get a degree from a local school or online in something completely different then aviation, while you work at the regional.
 
knot4u said:
Having a kid at 19 seems like the result of poor decision making, perhaps aviation is not your strong suit.
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Wow, how mature of you.

Regardless of the negative statements... I am graduating from Rocky Mountain College this weekend. Bummed to see you aren't attending, as it's a good place to fly, go to school, and nice place to raise a family. I'm 21, single, and from the Bay Area...so I am not a fan of Montana....but there's a lot of good qualities here that are extremely positive in my opinion.

Seems like you're on the right track but I do agree with @xargos .... you should care about your education. That was my motivation to get through college....the classes aren't tough and you don't have to be super intelligent as people think college graduates are....you just need to motivate yourself and push through the rough times. I came into Rocky with my private from the 61 world and am graduating in just 3 years with my BS in Aeronautical Science.

LOTS of pros to Rocky... small campus, EASY to get ANY class you want (because we're a private small school), professors are awesome...willing to meet on their own time to help you if you are struggling (in any field from english to aviation)...I actually have professors phone numbers to give them a call or text for questions or to meet at a coffee shop to read over papers and etc.

As far as the aviation department, we have ABBI accreditation, decent size fleet with Archer III's, Bonanza E33C, and Baron B55...a decent amount of instructors...Bridge program with Skywest cadet pilot program and also Cape Air (which flies out of Billings around Montana)...also upon graduation you'll qualify for the rATP rule to get hired for 1000 hours. Downfall is the weather and sometimes poor instructor availability but my senior year has been a lot better. They're improving the flight ops a lot since I came in as a freshman. We are expanding with a minor (possible major) in dispatching, aviation management degrees, and also just got approved for a minor in UAS if you're interested in that....or you can degree in anything non aviation related for that matter (like some people suggest)...although I loved my degree in Aeronautical Science...some awesome classes like CRM, air carrier ops, safety, etc. For costs...you're really gonna spend this type of money at any University...specially out of state tuition...unless you do your ratings elsewhere. Rocky will provide you with great financial aid and you can take summer classes here (which I did for 3 years and that's how I skipped a whole year)...I'm graduating with $90,000 in loans and that's for tuition, room and board, and Instrument, Commercial, Multi, and CFI included.

As far as cost of living it's incredibly cheap out here. Gas is low, no sales tax, my rent is $500 for a 2 bedroom basement all utilities included and the job market out here is extremely easy compared to big cities. Lots of connections through our program director.

Anyways, regardless of if you've made your mind up on Rocky or not I encourage you to get a degree. I can answer any other questions about our school and program. I was unhappy here in the beginning but it was a culture change for me. Looking back, it was a great small school where I learned a lot and I was extremely happy I chose Rocky over the big name schools like Riddle, UND, SIU, Western Michigan, who all accepted me and gave me absolute GARBAGE financial aid. Rocky gives out lots of money here and Billings is a nice cheap affordable town to be in. I got a job as a Ramp Agent with Delta...made more money than most of my regional pilots at Skywest flying into here make a year, and still attended school full time. Hope it works out but my only other advice is RESEARCH. Do the math, see if you and the family can financially support this career. Thankfully it was easy for me and I'm young like you but you have a lot of responsibilities and make sure she's on board also. I know plenty of people at Rocky who have kids and etc. and make it work fine so just make sure to brief everything. The costs are gonna be the same realistically anywhere you go, but I'd get a degree....plus when you're a senior like me you'll look back and feel so accomplished. I mean who wouldn't feel accomplished to pay $160,000 for a piece of paper.....
 
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elev8 said:
Go to atps flight school, get the ratings, flight instruct, get a job at a regional. You'll be making a little money then. Get a degree from a local school or online in something completely different then aviation, while you work at the regional.
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I would say this except, I'd go fly freight out of PDX for AmFlight as soon as I could, then get a medevac job ASAP. After ATPs I imagine he could probably get a flight instructing job in the Willamette Valley somewhere.
 
I know its a completely different direction but have you considered the military? If youre open to it there are a lot of former and current Air Force pilots who might be able to steer you in the right direction.
 
If you commit to the ATP dance (or a similar pilot mill) do your research. Those loans are no joke, and you won't be able to work full time while you attend. Studying is completely on you. For some guys it's the only option. I would encourage you to get the private and see if it's really something you want to do before you commit to 60, 70, or 80k of debt. You'll be looking at years of hard, unsteady work for low pay only to get a job at the airlines that doesn't pay well for a couple of years. But if it's really what you want to do then chase your dreams, man. Best of luck.
 
Stryker172 said:
I know its a completely different direction but have you considered the military? If youre open to it there are a lot of former and current Air Force pilots who might be able to steer you in the right direction.
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Not only is the military extremely competitive but also we are a poor country. Wondering if any guys in the military now know about the situation of new applicants? Had someone going to Navy my freshman year and he was even worried about not getting a slot.

Plus CNN keeps telling me that military pilots will be non existent in 5 years due to UAVs sooo.......:bounce::bang:
 
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