BE58 Configuration (ILS)

[minitour]

How many missed approaches from an ILS have you done?

Enough to know that it can be done.

Did five on one leg one day. That was a real joy. Just one of those things. You fly enough in enough crap and you're bound to have your share of misses. I've also had the "pleasure" of missing from non-ILSs and (oogy boogy) from a circle. Oh teh noez!

Did you have a point by asking that question or are you just trying to start a measuring contest?

So you must not need a checklist then huh Bob Ross?

Quite the opposite. I am "religious" in my checklist usage.

You can honestly tell me you've never forgotten your mixture and prop controls prior to touchdown?

No, I haven't...because we don't touch them unless we're going around (*note* I toss the word "we" around like I'm still with Airnet...I'm still on furlough. Just to clarify.). You're not reading or not comprehending or maybe both.

-mini

 

[CFI4life]

A couple times.

Assuming you're doing a normal descent rate of 600 fpm, ballpark math puts you 30 feet below DA after 3 seconds. If you not doing a "PERFECT" ILS (imagine that) you could see 50 feet pass by before you start gaining altitude. No thanks. I'll play it safe and keep one hand on the controls and the other one the throttles. Fly safe.

-dh

 

[minitour]

Assuming you're doing a normal descent rate of 600 fpm, ballpark math puts you 30 feet below DA after 3 seconds. If you not doing a "PERFECT" ILS (imagine that) you could see 50 feet pass by before you start gaining altitude. No thanks. I'll play it safe and keep one hand on the controls and the other one the throttles. Fly safe.

-dh

It's a DECISION Altitude...not Minimum Descent Altitude. You need to learn the difference and then report back before you continue on your tirade declaring everyone else unsafe.

-mini

 

[dasleben]

Assuming you're doing a normal descent rate of 600 fpm, ballpark math puts you 30 feet below DA after 3 seconds. If you not doing a "PERFECT" ILS (imagine that) you could see 50 feet pass by before you start gaining altitude. No thanks. I'll play it safe and keep one hand on the controls and the other one the throttles. Fly safe.

-dh

That's all fine and good, but Decision Altitude is just that: A place to make a decision. It's designed to allow you to sink below it while initiating the missed. Large jets can easily sink below DA by 50' or more on missed approaches. If you weren't allowed to go below it at any point, they'd call it an MDA.

Your method is perfectly fine...absolutely nothing wrong with it. But it's not hazardous in any way to go mixtures-props-throttles at DA on a missed. In fact, that's the preferred method for making sure that you don't shell a couple perfectly good engines.

 

[SIUav8er]

It's a DECISION Altitude...not Minimum Descent Altitude. You need to learn the difference and then report back before you continue on your tirade declaring everyone else unsafe.

-mini

true, but you still go below this enough WITHOUT wasting time with mixtures and props, why add more time to get established in missed approach?

(not trying to argue here... seriously!)

 

[SIUav8er]

In fact, that's the preferred method for making sure that you don't shell a couple perfectly good engines.

huh? a smooth application of the prop controls at a safe altitude on the approach vs slamming them full forward at DA would be better wouldnt it?

 

[minitour]

true, but you still go below this enough WITHOUT wasting time with mixtures and props, why add more time to get established in missed approach?

(not trying to argue here... seriously!)

So how long does it take to push 6 levers all the way to the firewall instead of 2? If you're at 200' doing 600fpm (eh...unless this is a downwind approach, it's going to be less than that), that gives me 20 seconds until impact. If it takes me 18 seconds to push the mixtures and props up, I deserve what I get.

Turn the TV off, turn off the radio, sit in complete silence and completely still and watch your watch for 20 seconds. It's a long time.

-mini

 

[minitour]

huh? a smooth application of the prop controls at a safe altitude on the approach vs slamming them full forward at DA would be better wouldnt it?

1) What makes DA not a "safe altitude"? If it's not safe, I shouldn't be there.
2) Why is it better at the "safe" altitude vs "DA"?

-mini

 

[CFI4life]

Enough to know that it can be done.

Did five on one leg one day. That was a real joy. Just one of those things. You fly enough in enough crap and you're bound to have your share of misses. I've also had the "pleasure" of missing from non-ILSs and (oogy boogy) from a circle. Oh teh noez!

Did you have a point by asking that question or are you just trying to start a measuring contest?

Quite the opposite. I am "religious" in my checklist usage.

No, I haven't...because we don't touch them unless we're going around. You're not reading or not comprehending or maybe both.

-mini

I did have a point by asking that. One of the most important things for single pilot IFR (for me) was about reducing work load during the most critical situations. My theory for that is to get the before landing checklist done PRIOR to touchdown.

You also still haven't given a valid reason for not advancing props and mixture prior to touchdown except for you do it when its needed on a GA.

And trust me son, I really don't need to get into a "measuring contest" with you. I just want to hear your opinion so that maybe you can enlighten me...

 

[SIUav8er]

point taken. thanks!

 

[CFI4life]

It's a DECISION Altitude...not Minimum Descent Altitude. You need to learn the difference and then report back before you continue on your tirade declaring everyone else unsafe.

-mini

Look Bob. On a standard ILS...which is a 3 degree glide slope @ 120 kts groudspeed, a 600 fpm descent will hold the GS perfectly. I was talking about corrections down the pipe and changing your fpm as you go.... I taught the stuff. dont start

 

[CFI4life]

So how long does it take to push 6 levers all the way to the firewall instead of 2? If you're at 200' doing 600fpm (eh...unless this is a downwind approach, it's going to be less than that), that gives me 20 seconds until impact. If it takes me 18 seconds to push the mixtures and props up, I deserve what I get.

Turn the TV off, turn off the radio, sit in complete silence and completely still and watch your watch for 20 seconds. It's a long time.

-mini

So with your theory you don't advance all those crazy levers until you need to huh? what do you do when you're 50 feet AGL and that student pilot pulls out onto the runway?

 

[dasleben]

true, but you still go below this enough WITHOUT wasting time with mixtures and props, why add more time to get established in missed approach?

(not trying to argue here... seriously!)

Again, absolutely nothing wrong with that technique. But again, there's nothing wrong with our technique either.

huh? a smooth application of the prop controls at a safe altitude on the approach vs slamming them full forward at DA would be better wouldnt it?

Who's slamming anything forward? For me, a missed approach is more like:

300...
250...
200...
"Sigh...'bout that time I guess..."
Mixtures-props-throttles, flaps 15, positive rate, gear up, flaps up

Nothing to it.

I did have a point by asking that. One of the most important things for single pilot IFR (for me) was about reducing work load during the most critical situations. My theory for that is to get the before landing checklist done PRIOR to touchdown.

You also still haven't given a valid reason for not advancing props and mixture prior to touchdown except for you do it when its needed on a GA.

And trust me son, I really don't need to get into a "measuring contest" with you. I just want to hear your opinion so that maybe you can enlighten me...

Anyone truly proficient in single pilot operations shouldn't have a problem pushing a couple extra sets of levers forward to initiate the missed. It really honestly takes very little extra time.

The reason I don't push them up prior is because the props being pushed way up to 2700 RPM tends to alarm the passengers. That's standard company SOP, and that SOP has been developed over 20 years of flying this aircraft type single-pilot in the northeast. They know what they're teaching.

 

[minitour]

I did have a point by asking that.

...and that was?

...do you work for ARG/US?

One of the most important things for single pilot IFR (for me) was about reducing work load during the most critical situations. My theory for that is to get the before landing checklist done PRIOR to touchdown.

The before landing checklist is done prior to touchdown. In fact, it's completed at "geardownbeforelandingchecklist". ...no later than 1000' AGL. You're once again not comprehending or not reading.

You also still haven't given a valid reason for not advancing props and mixture prior to touchdown except for you do it when its needed on a GA.

That's the valid reason. You're going to do it on a go around anyway. I hope people out there aren't just slamming the throttles forward without giving the mixtures and props a thought during a go-around or missed approach.

And trust me son, I really don't need to get into a "measuring contest" with you.

Oh no, what will I do? You've certainly told me!

I just want to hear your opinion so that maybe you can enlighten me...

I've given my opinion several times. You're still not reading.

Just out of curiosity, how much time do you have behind the wheel of a HP piston twin...single pilot?

-mini

 

[minitour]

Look Bob. On a standard ILS...which is a 3 degree glide slope @ 120 kts groudspeed, a 600 fpm descent will hold the GS perfectly. I was talking about corrections down the pipe and changing your fpm as you go.... I taught the stuff. dont start

I knew I should have instructed for more than 1600 hours. D'oh! You got me good.

But my name isn't Bob.

So with your theory you don't advance all those crazy levers until you need to huh? what do you do when you're 50 feet AGL and that student pilot pulls out onto the runway?

It's really simple.

Mixtures-Props-Throttles

Pitch to arrest descent and start a climb. (eh...8-12 dnu depending on weight in a baron should just about do it. Empty with 30 gallons of fuel and me and I'm probably going more to 15 degrees or so. Whatever it takes to hold the blue line.)

Flaps Approach

Positive Rate - Gear Up

500' - Props set to climb power

1000' - Flaps up after takeoff checklist...or climb checklist...whatever it's called. Generally I just ramble off "1000'flapsupchecklist".

-mini

 

[SIUav8er]

I've given my opinion several times. You're still not reading.

Just out of curiosity, how much time do you have behind the wheel of a HP piston twin...single pilot?

-mini

thats why I'm lovin the insight here! PA-44 aint high performance lol

...do you work for ARG/US?

hahahahaha!!!!

 

[minitour]

hahahahaha!!!!

Good, someone got it. I was getting worried.

-mini

 

[dasleben]

Look Bob. On a standard ILS...which is a 3 degree glide slope @ 120 kts groudspeed, a 600 fpm descent will hold the GS perfectly. I was talking about corrections down the pipe and changing your fpm as you go.... I taught the stuff. dont start

We all taught this stuff, brah.

Some of us also have a significant amount of time single-pilot in high performance twins. I'm not just making up what I'm saying about this stuff; I do all of this on a daily basis. Mini has a strong background in it as well.

 

[minitour]

Mini has a strong background in it as well.

Nah. I flew a fixed gear single for 51% of my freight "career". I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Hey, I didn't touch the prop lever at all in that plane between engine start and shut down. Oogy boogy.

-mini

 

[CFI4life]

Flaps at the marker, gear 1000' AGL. Flaps to land when you're landing.

Cross the marker with the flaps coming to approach and 150, hit DH at blue line.

Mixtures, props, throttles (that order) for a missed approach. If you don't need all of that gas and climb power (like if you're landing) don't screw with it.

-mini

Who's afraid? It's just something else to do. I go mixtures-props-throttles on a go around anyway, so they'll go forward when they need to.

-mini

Enough to know that it can be done.

Did five on one leg one day. That was a real joy. Just one of those things. You fly enough in enough crap and you're bound to have your share of misses. I've also had the "pleasure" of missing from non-ILSs and (oogy boogy) from a circle. Oh teh noez!

Did you have a point by asking that question or are you just trying to start a measuring contest?

Quite the opposite. I am "religious" in my checklist usage.

No, I haven't...because we don't touch them unless we're going around (*note* I toss the word "we" around like I'm still with Airnet...I'm still on furlough. Just to clarify.). You're not reading or not comprehending or maybe both.

-mini

...and that was?

...do you work for ARG/US?


The before landing checklist is done prior to touchdown. In fact, it's completed at "geardownbeforelandingchecklist". ...no later than 1000' AGL. You're once again not comprehending or not reading.

That's the valid reason. You're going to do it on a go around anyway. I hope people out there aren't just slamming the throttles forward without giving the mixtures and props a thought during a go-around or missed approach.

Oh no, what will I do? You've certainly told me!


I've given my opinion several times. You're still not reading.

Just out of curiosity, how much time do you have behind the wheel of a HP piston twin...single pilot?

-mini

Maybe we're not on the same page here. My before landing checks had the mixture and props to be pushed forward... My point is that you don't have to give the mixtures and props a thought on a GA if its been done prior. I think its you who's not reading or comprehending (or maybe both) I like my way cause its easier for a simpleton like myself...I have 500 hours single pilot IFR. PISSSSS.. Your turn. I'm done here. :clap: